Murphy Grills Unqualified Trump Nominee On His White Nationalist Views

WASHINGTON-U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Europe and Regional Security, questioned Jeremy Carl, nominee to be the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations, about his white identitarian worldview and writings. Murphy demanded that Carl explain his longheld beliefs that white Americans face more discrimination than any other racial group in the United States, and called for his Senate colleagues to reject his nomination.

If confirmed, Carl will lead a State Department unit of over 100 diplomats and shape the United States' engagement with multilateral organizations, including UNICEF and the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization.

Murphy denounced Trump's nomination of a white nationalist to a top post at the State Department: "I think it's just heartbreaking that you have been nominated for this position and that you've reached a panel before the United States Senate… One of the things you have said is that anti-white discrimination is the most pervasive and politically salient form of racism today. So do you continue to believe that anti-white discrimination is more salient than the discrimination faced today by Blacks, Latinos, Muslims, or other American groups?"

He pressed the nominee to explain his belief that white identity is being "erased" from American culture: "You have made several statements about your worry regarding the erasure of white culture in America. You know, I understand Irish American culture. I understand Italian American culture. I maybe don't understand white culture as well. Tell me the values, the white values, that you believed are being erased by the current American government or the prior American governments?... Tell us your thoughts on how white identity is different than other kinds of identity and how it's being erased?"

Murphy cut right through the nominee's evasive dog whistles to expose his fundamentally racist worldview: "I think you're struggling to answer this question, right? Because underlying your beliefs is a sentiment that white culture is just simply better. You haven't been able to really coherently answer any of my questions about how you define white culture, how you define the threat that's posed. I appreciate you being very honest that you believe that white Americans are subject to greater amounts of discrimination in this country than Black Americans. I do not think that's a sentiment that is shared broadly on this committee, it is all what makes you just wildly, wildly unqualified to take this post."

A full transcript of the exchange is available below.

Murphy: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, thank you all for appearing here today. Mr. Carl, I think it's just heartbreaking that you have been nominated for this position and that you've reached a panel before the United States Senate. But I do want to give you a chance to go a little bit deeper in your explanations of your personal beliefs, they are directly relevant to your fitness to serve. You have already had some of your statements read to you, but I'd like you to respond to at least a few of them.

One of the things you have said is that anti-white discrimination is the most pervasive and politically salient form of racism today. So do you continue to believe that anti-white discrimination is more salient than the discrimination faced today by Blacks, Latinos, Muslims, or other American groups.

Carl: Thank you for that question, and thank you also for giving me an opportunity to speak at a little bit of length. I haven't necessarily had much opportunity to respond.

Murphy: I'm gonna have at least one more question for you, so I'll give you a minute or two to respond.

Carl: Yes. So thanks to the great work of my friend Harmeet Dhillon as the Assistant Attorney General of Civil Rights, I actually think that we've done an incredible job in this administration of getting rid of certain policies that discriminate, particularly against white Americans, but also, in some cases, Asian Americans.

Murphy: Well, maybe answer my question, let's rewind. Maybe you'll suggest that everything is fine now. Let's rewind a year ago. A year ago, were white Americans the most discriminated against group in the United States? You said it.

Carl: Yes, certainly this is my belief. I'm not running away from that. I think that while, of course, all races in different contexts can be subject to really severe discrimination that when we look at our legal structures, white Americans are often very disfavored in overt ways. We're seeing this in the Small Business Administration, many other places.

Murphy: So your belief is that white Americans face more discrimination, at least prior to the Trump administration fixing this, than Black Americans?

Carl: On average. Senator, yes, that's correct, and I'm not running away from

that statement at all.

Murphy: You have made several statements about your worry regarding the erasure of white culture in America. You know, I understand Irish American culture. I understand Italian American culture, I maybe don't understand white culture as well. Tell me the values, the white values, that you believed are being erased by the current American government or the prior American governments.

Carl: Senator, thank you for that question. I would say that I didn't use the word values. I used the word culture. I think that any time you have large degrees of mass immigration, you're going to have a change in culture, especially if they're coming from culturally dissimilar backgrounds. And no matter what group it is, if it were in China, it would be the same thing. If it were in New Guinea, it would be the same thing.

Murphy: But tell me about what that means. I mean culture is values, right? It's expressions of identity. Tell me what is being erased. Give me some examples of what you believe are being erased about white identity. What is white identity to you?

Carl: Well, Senator, thank you for that-

Murphy: Tell me how it's different than other identities.

Carl: Senator, I think the question of identity is something that lots of scholars-

Murphy: Yeah you can do a sermon on identity, but just tell me how you define white identity and what you think is being erased about white identity.

Carl: Senator, it would have- thank you again for the question, and genuinely, thank you for finally letting me have a chance to explain some of my comments a little bit. But I would say that, you know, they could be things like going to a certain type of Christian Church and that sort of culture, which is very different. I mean, you can all be Christians, right, in a certain environment, but African American Christians might worship differently than Chinese Christians that might worship differently than white Christians. Of course, sometimes you have multi-ethnic churches, but things like that, certain types of Anglo-derived culture that comes from our history.

Murphy: Like what?

Carl: Let me think about this. You know, Senator, I would say, if you were to look at the book by one of your former Senate colleagues, "Born Fighting" about the sort of Scotch/Irish military culture and certain, you know, pride that went with that, that would be one example. Obviously, you could have sub elements of that culture. You could have Italians. You could have Irish and those are in many ways more-

Murphy: You're worried about white culture. You're not worried about- you're now retreating to ethnic identity. You don't speak about ethnic identity, you speak about white identity. So tell me the values that stitch together white identity and make it different than Black identity.

Carl: Senator, again, thank you -

Murphy: You spend a lot of time talking about this and writing about this but you're struggling with this, but you should be fairly easy, I would assume, be able to tell us your thoughts on how white identity is different than other kinds of identity and how it's being erased.

Carl: Senator, again, thank you for the question.

Murphy: You're welcome.

Carl: I'm just trying to be very precise. Because I'm here in front of a Senate committee, I would say that the white church is very different than the Black church in terms of its tone and style on average. Food ways could often be different.

Murphy: And those are being erased?

Carl: Music could be different if you look at the Super Bowl Halftime Show, which was not in English.

Murphy: So our ability to access white churches or white food or white music is being erased?

Carl: Senator again, thank you for the question. What I would say is the biggest thing, because actually, contrary to many of the comments that have been shown, racial nationalists have been very, very critical of my work, because they correctly say that I'm actually, of course, not a racial nationalist, which I'm not. I'm a civic nationalist. I am concerned with the majority common American culture, that we had for some time, that through particularly mass immigration, I think, has become much more balkanized, and I think that weakens us. And again, I'm not running away from that comment. I'm not apologizing for it.

Murphy: I'm way over my time. I think you're struggling to answer this question, right? Because underlying your beliefs is a sentiment that white culture is just simply better.

Carl: Senator, I have to disagree with that.

Murphy: You haven't been able to really coherently answer any of my questions about how you define white culture, how you define the threat that's posed. I appreciate you being very honest that you believe that white Americans are subject to greater amounts of discrimination in this country than Black Americans. I do not think that's a sentiment that is shared broadly on this committee, it is all what makes you just wildly, wildly unqualified to take this post. I'm well over my time.

Carl: I do appreciate you letting me actually respond. I genuinely do. So thank you. Thank you.