Question and answer - Daily Telegraph Future Western Sydney Forum

BEN ENGLISH, EDITOR OF THE DAILY TELEGRAPH: Well, congratulations. Well, it has to be acknowledged you did play an instrumental part in getting this over the line. So that was great and also thanks for the money. $72.5 million, it's nothing to sneeze at, is it? I must say, well, I'm taking it, but that will be for the redundancy payments for all those meddling bureaucrats that are holding up developments?

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Well, it will go straight to New South Wales. The Premier and his Planning Minister and others have done a really good job, and we have been to many sites, building, including here in Western Sydney, examples of great projects around Westmead Hospital. Providing housing for essential workers in an extraordinary project. But right around Western Sydney it's made a difference. But also, one of the things that had happened is that a whole lot of homes, as well, social public housing, was vacant because they hadn't been fixed up. They weren't liveable. So, a whole range of things. I've been passionate for some time as well about the first road to Western Sydney of course was Parramatta Road and hopefully, we can do better governance across the board with that as well.

ENGLISH: Yeah, but how does it work? Like how does more cash get you faster development? I mean I know how it worked in the old days.

PRIME MINISTER: Too soon. By making sure that planning approvals can be streamlined through and it's a productivity fund that was established in a previous Government. What we said was that the Government's put in place mechanisms to fast track planning we will provide an incentive, a bit like the Hawke Government did the National Competition Policy Payments, what we've done is provide a billion-dollar fund, a productivity fund, essentially to reward good behaviour of state and territory governments. That's what it's there for. To provide that incentive for them to get on with the planning approvals which are there. We as the Commonwealth want to see, we've got the target of 1.2 million homes by the end of the decade built. Supply is clearly the key to housing policy, but we're not in control of state and local government. In some cases, it's local government. One of the problems we've had across a range of areas with aged care facilities, for example, it's really difficult, believe it or not. Why people would object to an aged care facility is beyond me. But it has proven to be difficult right across the country, so providing that incentive through a productivity fund that was set up by the Treasurer through - I'm sure Daniel probably knows more than I do, it was probably a Treasurer's meeting as where it came from. And the states all said, 'oh yeah, but what are you going to do to help?' So, what we're going to do to help is to provide that incentive.

ENGLISH: It was also - it's a welcomed announcement to get more fuel and it's a constant struggle, isn't it? So, well done on that. But would it be easier if we just drilled our own oil?

PRIME MINISTER: Of course, but it would have been easier if we had six refineries open rather than two. All of this would be easier but dealing with the immediate concerns - New South Wales made a welcomed announcement this week about looking, essentially, for potential fields in western New South Wales. But that takes time, that's the truth. We're in a global crisis right now, so we need to deal with what's in front of us right now. Which is what we've been able to do so far, whilst continuing to remind people that the truth is the situation is volatile. Like, we don't want to gild the lily here. We don't know when this war will end. We don't know what the consequences will be. We don't know if the Strait of Hormuz will be open, what the time frame is. And we know that even if it opened tomorrow, because of the distances to travel, there's been damage in infrastructure in the Gulf as well. So, the consequences will have a tail to it. But what we've managed to do up to this point is frankly much better than the most optimistic assessments were at the beginning of this conflict of where we'd be on May 1.

ENGLISH: Just a change of pace because there's been some bombshell news this week, in particular in the wake of Bondi. We've had the interim report of the Royal Commission and look, reality is there's finite resources everywhere and you need money in the intelligence space for a whole variety of things. You know, there's foreign interference, espionage, they all require a lot of attention. But do you accept that the Royal Commission has highlighted that more funding needs to be directed into counter-terrorism activity and that CT spending really hasn't been maintained?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, it has been maintained under us. That's the point of the report.

ENGLISH: It's below 2020, well below where it was in 2020. Admittedly it was the Coalition that reduced -

PRIME MINISTER: We're elected in 2022. And what the report shows is that there is increased funding for ASIS, ASIO, the AFP, Australian Signals Directorate, every single one of our agencies has more funding today than when we were elected.

ENGLISH: Should we get more CT funding?

PRIME MINISTER: We'll take on board every recommendation we have said we will adopt from the Royal Commission. That's why you have a reassessment of processes to take on board. And we have said from the Commonwealth, we will support everything that relates to the Commonwealth. And I know the Premier can speak for himself, but he was out there saying the same thing with regard to New South Wales as well. And that's a good thing. That's why we're having this going forward.

ENGLISH: You face a fair share of criticism in the wake of Bondi, the atrocity. What did that teach you about leadership?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, people make their own decisions and people will make their calls. When national tragedies have occurred in the past, Port Arthur we commemorated this week - what occurred was that the leadership of John Howard, Tim Fisher and Kim Beazley came together to make a difference.

This was an enormous tragedy and the worst terrorist attack on Australian soil. My priority in the immediate aftermath was about keeping people safe. We did not know whether there would be a series of events which, historically, you look overseas, that is what has occurred. Look at the UK, you have one event and then you have a series, going back to 9/11, for example. We did not know if there were international connections. Our immediate priority - our National Security Committee met on the Sunday night at 9:30. I met with the Premier of New South Wales Police in the early hours. Flew into Sydney overnight and met early in the morning. Premier and I stood up about 7 o'clock Monday morning. I was meeting at Bondi police station at 8 o'clock, met the first responders. Before 9 o'clock. I was there at the site of the Pavilion, and we continued to meet the National Security Committee on more than - on at least every day. We responded while that was occurring. People made a decision to politicise the event as something that hasn't happened in the past that occurred. My focus was on keeping people safe and continuing to act. And that is what we did. We did that consistently. People said Parliament should resume before Christmas and demanded, indeed, that it resume, demanded there be legislation. When we brought Parliament back and introduced the legislation that people had asked for, we couldn't get it through the Senate. So, we got through what we could. We wanted to go harder and have a stronger response, but we wanted to do it as well in an orderly way. And immediately we had, of course, Dennis Richardson look at the security agencies. Immediately responded. There was no one better than him to look at that. And we worked through those issues. The other thing that was happening that week as well, with due respect to the media, I was meeting with people, not with TV cameras. I was meeting people in homes who'd lost loved ones and it was an awful time for the Jewish community. They were scared. They were scared. But I wasn't worried about politics or about what people say. I was worried about making a difference. My responsibility as Prime Minister was to do that.

ENGLISH: Right, we'll change gear. As you said, we've got perhaps the most anticipated Federal Budget. About, as you said, about 12 days to go. And in that context, you spoke passionately just then about aspiration. And you're right. Western Sydney, it may not appear to be super rich, but many Western Sydney people, they own their own investment properties and they're trying to secure the future. Do you not want them to do this?

PRIME MINISTER: No, I do. I want them to have success. I want every Australian to be able to aspire to a better life.

ENGLISH: Does higher tax help or hinder aspiration?

PRIME MINISTER: Tax measures should be aimed at promoting aspiration, including the right of people to aspire to own their own home. And the truth is that many young people at the moment feel like they haven't got a fair crack at owning their own home. And we want to make sure through - supply is the key, the range of measures that we put in place have been aimed at just that. I know there's been a bit of speculation, all of it wrong. When people see what we're actually going to do in the Budget, people will be able to make their own assessments. But I can assure you that it is aimed firmly and squarely at aspiration.

ENGLISH: And you're talking about fundamental and profound reforms, but why won't you do the simplest and most effective reform and index income tax rates?

PRIME MINISTER: No government has done that.

ENGLISH: Doesn't mean it's wrong.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, you define it that way. I don't think that's the most -- I think that's a very big call from you, Ben.

ENGLISH: Isn't it about equity?

PRIME MINISTER: It's an even bigger call for you to say that that's the biggest thing we can do on equity in the Budget. So, thank God you're not on the ERC.

ENGLISH: Alright, I'll safely avoid that.

PRIME MINISTER: There's a range of tax measures you can do to really go hard on equity. That's not at the front of them.

ENGLISH: No, but all I'm arguing about is that as people move up in their incomes and their ambitions, they shouldn't be punished by moving up tax brackets because of inflation.

PRIME MINISTER: I understand the argument.

ENGLISH: But don't you agree with it?

PRIME MINISTER: I understand the argument. What we will do - what I agree with is what you will see on May 12.

ENGLISH: All right, look, let's not squirm anymore. Let's have a game. It's not going to be a gotcha one, but it'll still be fun, all right? El Jannah or Frangos?

PRIME MINISTER: Frangos, I've got to pick Frangos. They're based in Petersham, have expanded out. Talk about success. Small business. Portuguese migrants from Madeira who've done very, very well.

ENGLISH: Good, I thought you'd say that. Alright, Kirribilli or the Lodge?

PRIME MINISTER: The Lodge.

ENGLISH: Kirribilli is a bit shabby, isn't it?

PRIME MINISTER: My life is so busy, and I think the Prime Minister of Australia should be the Prime Minister of Australia, and should live in the national capital.

ENGLISH: Yeah, good. Tiramisu or Viennetta?

PRIME MINISTER: You know the answer. Viennetta, absolutely. I'm not allowed with my diet these days to have it. So, just looking at it, you're upsetting me.

ENGLISH: Alright, an easy one. Biden or Trump?

PRIME MINISTER: I don't get to say that, because I don't have a vote in US elections. See what I did there?

ENGLISH: Ah, cop out. Yeah, I did. Latrell or Alex Johnston? It's like choosing between your children.

PRIME MINISTER: No, no. See, what you've got wrong there is the 'or'. It is Latrell to Johnston, who scores. That's the way it works.

ENGLISH: Yeah, I've seen that. Alright, changing gear. MAFS or White Lotus? Depends who you're watching with, right?

PRIME MINISTER: No, no, no. MAFS. Jodie loves MAFS. And I must admit, I thought many of the people in it were horrible this year. But it sucks you in completely. And yeah, it's great escapism. So, I enjoy it very much.

ENGLISH: It's genius. Alright, Eels or Panthers?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh look, Panthers have won enough. I don't support either. But Parra, 86, last comp? Come on, someone here's got to know. 81, 82, 83. Great team. I was there when they were supposed to beat Newcastle. Red hot favourites. And Newcastle smashed them. So, I'll pick the underdog, I'm from the Labor party, you know?

ENGLISH: Well, in that case, Wests Tigers, Bulldogs?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, Tigers.

ENGLISH: Okay. Jersey on or jersey off? And I'm thinking about AJ's record.

PRIME MINISTER: I'm much more comfortable wearing a footy jumper. It's one of the pains of this existence, is --

ENGLISH: You got a Jets jumper as well?

PRIME MINISTER: I do, patron there, in the New South Wales comp. But yeah, it was a great occasion when AJ won. Was there any possibility on earth that people would not run onto the field when someone breaks the world record?

ENGLISH: Yeah, it was pretty odd. It was pretty strange and it was very funny when they put the sign up.

PRIME MINISTER: Just encourages it. If you want Australians to not do something, don't put up a sign that has - has the away team, doesn't acknowledge the Souths are playing. Separate question. But says, every five minutes it was up, 'you'll be fined, you'll go to jail, you know, you'll be deported.' You know, just encourages it. Just encourages people. Very Australian.

ENGLISH: It was gold. Very Aussie. Australian Open or Oasis concert?

PRIME MINISTER: Australian Open.

ENGLISH: Spicy or mild?

PRIME MINISTER: Spicy. I like hot food.

ENGLISH: Extra garlic or no garlic?

PRIME MINISTER: Everything's better with garlic and chilli.

ENGLISH: Good. And finally, this is a tough one.

PRIME MINISTER: Finally? This could be bad.

ENGLISH: Nonna's pasta or takeaway pizza?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, gee. Both.

ENGLISH: Yeah, I'm with you.

PRIME MINISTER: Both. Neither of which are in my diet these days.

ENGLISH: Well done. You got through it.

PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.