Video and Rush Transcript: Goldman Grills Ice Director Todd Lyons at House Homeland Security Oversight Hearing

"If you don't want to be called a fascist regime or secret police, then stop acting like one."

"There are well-documented instances of people, American citizens, being asked to show and prove their citizenship. Do you know what other regimes in the 20th century required similar proof of citizenship?"

"It's long past time that you rein in your out-of-control agency and start following the law and the Constitution."

Full Video Available HERE

Washington, D.C. - Today, U.S. Representative Dan Goldman (NY-10) cross-examined Acting Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Director Todd Lyons over ICE's "un-American and outright fascist" immigration enforcement tactics. Rep. Goldman grilled Lyons for forcing people of color to prove their citizenship - and demanded that Lyons "rein in [his] out-of-control agency."

A rush transcript of the questioning is available below:

Rep. Dan Goldman: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Lyons, what guidance have you given to your agents about asking people walking on the streets of America to show proof of citizenship?

Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons: Sir, as I stated earlier, the men and women of ICE, deportation officers and special agents, we conduct targeted intelligence driven operations. We don't walk around in the streets asking people about their American citizenship.

Goldman: Really? So all of those individual American citizens who have been randomly asked are lying? Is that what you're saying?

Lyons: Sir, if the men and women of ICE are conducting an investigation, whether it be for Title 8 immigration enforcement or Title 18 criminal enforcement, they'll ask someone their nationality.

Goldman: Right but that's not targeted because they're asking all sorts of American citizens including off-duty law enforcement. Now, have you directed at any point your agents under the Supreme Court's racial profiling ruling to only stop non-white people and those who look like immigrants to ask for their citizenship papers?

Lyons: No sir, I haven't.

Goldman: Now, you are aware of course and there is well-documented, numerous well-documented instances of people, American citizens being asked to show and prove their citizenship. Do you know what other regimes in the 20th century required similar proof of citizenship?

Lyons: Yes sir.

Goldman: What?

Lyons: Sir, there has been various nefarious regimes that did that.

Goldman: Is Nazi Germany one?

Lyons: Yes. But I-

Goldman: Is the Soviet Union one?

Lyons: I-

Goldman: I'm asking the questions. Is the Soviet Union one?

Lyons: Yes sir, but I'm, I'm totally…this is the wrong type of questioning.

Goldman: I'll tell you what the wrong type of questioning. Reclaiming my time.

Lyons: It's not the men and women of ICE that are out there doing it every day. So to say that the men and women of ICE are Gestapos. Wrong.

Goldman: I'm reclaiming my time, I would like my time back please. Please give me another 15 seconds because he was unnecessarily speaking. You said in your opening statement that references to ICE as the Gestapo or the secret police encourages threats against ICE agents.

Lyons: 100%.

Goldman: The problem is, you have it backwards sir. People are simply making valid observations about your tactics, which are un-American and outright fascist. So I have a simple suggestion. If you don't want to be called a fascist regime or secret police, then stop acting like one. People are simply just observing what they are seeing. And that's why people are making those comments.

Now I was a prosecutor for ten years, prosecuted mob bosses, organized crime, violent criminals, the actual "worst of the worst." Not a single criminal law enforcement agent that I worked with wore a mask to conceal their identity. But your department, which is a civil law enforcement agency, is defending the use of masks by your agents because of a so-called rise in threats and assaults against your officers. Now you said in your opening testimony that assaults against ICE officers are up by more than 1400%, which is now even more than the 1300% that your gaslighting spokesperson Tricia [McLaughlin] from Ohio has recently been citing. But here's the problem. There are two separate very detailed, very thorough investigative reports based on your own data that both conclude that assaults against ICE officers are up about 25%, which is far less, of course, than you assert and far less than you would expect from an agency that has more than doubled its hiring and has an even greater increase in arrests.

Now, why is that a problem Mr. Lyons? It's a problem because the explanation that your agents are wearing masks because of fear of assaults or doxxing is outright bogus. You and your untrained, unqualified, unvetted, unidentified agents are intentionally terrorizing our cities and communities all over this country to avoid accountability for their excessive force and their lawless actions. That is why you're wearing masks, so no one can hold you accountable and you know that the FBI is not going to because notwithstanding all the investigations all of you say are going on, the Department of Justice and the FBI has stated they are not investigating those two murders.

This is not the America I know and love. This is not the America my immigrant [family] came to and it's long past time that you rein in your out-of-control agency and start following the law and the Constitution and I yield back.

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