Minister of Foreign Affairs George Gerapetritis’ interview with journalists Alexandra Fotaki and Giannis Baskakis, on the hybrid channel of the “Oikonomikos Tachydromos”[...]

JOURNALIST: We begin our broadcast with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. George Gerapetritis. Mr. Gerapetritis, welcome and thank you for honouring us with your presence every year by being here and starting together with us.

G. GERAPETRITIS: I hope I bring you good luck. It seems that, as time goes by, diplomacy becomes even more pertinent, so I think we will have a lot to discuss.

JOURNALIST: I know I will annoy you a little, but let us start with Türkiye, the familiar issue, and whether the" calm waters" are turning into a storm?

G. GERAPETRITIS: What is important to highlight is the fact that geography also defines diplomacy. In this sense, we should keep channels open with all our neighbours. And you will allow me to say, especially with those with whom we have differences. The value of real, substantive diplomacy is being able to discuss even when you have differences. And I think that over the last three years we have achieved a satisfactory level of communication with Türkiye, a relationship which is functional and has produced tangible results, particularly in the area of migration and regarding violations. On the other hand, we are indeed in a period of increasing tension, which is linked to unilateral actions by Türkiye. Our conviction is that we should continue to discuss and find ways to prevent crises. On the other hand, it is absolutely clear that despite the necessary dialogue there will be no retreat whatsoever from our national positions, which we hold as sacred.

JOURNALIST: This escalation that you mention, and I see that you recognise it, Minister, on the part of Türkiye, Türkiye's stance, that is, with the marine parks, with the announcement concerning the law on the "blue homeland", or with the statements by Erdoğan himself regarding demilitarisation, which Türkiye is essentially putting forward. I wonder whether all this stance by Türkiye caught the Greek side by surprise. Was it something it expected?

G. GERAPETRITIS: We always expect reactions and, in particular, we expect reactions when we undertake initiatives. What I think distinguishes our policy and diplomacy in the foreign policy of the last three years, is the undertaking of initiatives. For us, remaining in a stagnant situation is a real step backwards. Nor will we ever relinquish our unilateral right to have the structure of defence forces that we choose, nor, of course, will we make any concession with regard to our international alliances.

On the other hand, we put our arguments on the table: Maritime Spatial Planning, our rights to exploration and extraction, our right to marine environmental parks, our international alliances, our defence shield. Therefore, we expect reactions. We would be daydreamers to believe that, when we undertake initiatives, there will be no reaction. I do, however, want to say that there are substantive differences here. And the substantive differences lie in the fact that whatever Greece does, it does so consistently and with full adherence to the rules of International Law. We want to be consistent, we want to maintain good-neighbourly relations and, for this reason, we always act on the basis of International Law.

JOURNALIST: Minister, did we miss an opportunity to put on the table the essential issue, which you have said that, as long as it exists, there will continue to be tension with Türkiye, namely maritime zones? And to what extent did the criticism voiced by Mr. Samaras and Mr. Karamanlis, that the government is pursuing a policy of appeasement, also contribute to this? Couldn't these three years of calm have been an opportunity to highlight at least Türkiye's reluctance to discuss and reach some conclusion?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There are always two dimensions, which are linked to a policy that is bilateral, and indeed goes back through the centuries with very serious tensions, crises and wars. What is important is to maintain a level of calm, so that crises are not generated - we should especially stress this at a period of extreme vulnerability worldwide - which could have a huge domino effect. The value of being able to absorb and contain crises is extremely important, particularly today. Suffice it to say that we are surrounded, as you know, by two wars in our neighbourhood, but also by an extremely volatile situation in Africa, particularly in Sub-Saharan Africa, with a series of civil wars and coups, which could potentially create conditions of massive population displacement. So, yes, we must absorb crises.

On the other hand, the dimension you refer to, namely discussing our major issue - that is, the underlying issue which produces, as you correctly said, the crises - which is the delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zone and the continental shelf, is indeed an issue which should be discussed. I believe, it is my conviction, that there will be long-term and sustainable peace in our wider region only if this issue is resolved. On the other hand, there is a fundamental disagreement. And this lies in the fact that Greece considers that it is the only issue which can be brought before international jurisdiction, our only dispute. Whereas Türkiye links this issue with other matters, which according to our understanding are non-existent and lie outside of any agenda. If there is no convergence regarding this point, the discussion cannot begin. And I must tell you that an effort was made to achieve convergence. In this case, the convergence which could have been nothing other than the basic acceptance, in accordance with International Law, that the only dispute concerns delimitation, was not possible. Therefore, you will allow me to say that this issue is in no way connected with the criticism that anyone may exercise. As far as I know, even those who are critical of the government's foreign policy agree that with Türkiye we can discuss only the issue of the delimitation of the continental shelf and Exclusive Economic Zone. I have not heard anyone say that we can depart from this national position and, for this reason, I do not consider that the inability to be able to start the discussion is due to any criticism that is being voiced. I hope that in the coming years, either with this government or with another government, we will find common ground with Türkiye so that we can discuss this major issue.

JOURNALIST: At present, are there active mechanisms for absorbing the crises you referred to? I mean, do the ''calm waters'' work in practice? Does the Athens Declaration work in practice?

G. GERAPETRITIS: What is characterised as "calm waters" is nothing other than a process of structured dialogue. What we said three years ago, when we decided to begin this new era for Greek-Turkish relations, and also signed the Athens Declaration in December 2023, was that dialogue should not be conducted in a disorderly manner, but in a structured manner. We created the pillars, we created the channels of communication. We even designated those people who would conduct this structured dialogue. The three pillars of dialogue continue to exist, namely the Political Dialogue, the Positive Agenda, and the Confidence-Building Measures. Of course, we have our ups and downs in this dialogue. As I told you, at this time there is tension, which has been produced mainly by the rhetoric coming from Türkiye and by the establishment of marine parks. We believe that this structured dialogue should continue and in this direction we will proceed, I repeat, without any concession with regard to our national positions.

JOURNALIST: Minister, we also saw Mr. Kalin, the head of Türkiye's intelligence services, visit Athens and meet with the head of the National Intelligence Service. Were the discussions productive and towards what field did they move? Given that we also have a huge crisis in our neighbourhood, where the two countries might need to cooperate on certain matters in order to be able to address what is coming.

G. GERAPETRITIS: The intelligence services of neighbouring states always cooperate and there are continuous exchanges of visits both with Türkiye and with our other neighbouring countries. Therefore, in this context, it was not an extraordinary meeting. It was a meeting that had been scheduled for some time. Of course, it took place during the current period of tensions, as you know. There are issues that are open and of common interest in our neighbourhood. There is the major crisis in the wider Middle East, there is the issue of Iran and freedom of navigation, maritime security. There are the issues relating to Libya and Syria. Therefore, there were discussions concerning all these issues, as well as organised terrorism. I believe that communication between the intelligence services is necessary. It also gives us a certain degree of visibility regarding developments.

JOURNALIST: In such periods, when tension rises between Athens and Ankara, how feasible is it for this cooperation to take place, particularly between intelligence services?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There is information that needs to be shared between neighbours and there is also other information, which obviously remains at the core of the foreign policy strategy. To give you a simple example: the issue concerning irregular migration flows. There must be exchange of information. I would like to remind you that at this moment we have a reduction of around 80% in irregular migration flows from the east. This did not happen by chance. It is obvious that there was the political will for this cooperation to take place. However, political will was transformed into action through the intelligence services and the exchange of information, of which we became recipients. Therefore, these exchanges of information took place which, of course, do not pertain to the hard core of foreign policy.

JOURNALIST: Now, one question is what Türkiye is seeking with the stance it is maintaining, with this escalation that we described earlier. I read and hear analyses. Some say that, in this way, it wants to create faits accomplis. Others even say that it may want to provoke the involvement of the American factor. And I wonder whether the Greek government is concerned by such a development.

JOURNALIST: We are also expecting Rubio for the strategic dialogue, we do not yet know a date.

G. GERAPETRITIS: And it will not be disclosed today despite your apparent eagerness to find out. Let me begin with the issue you mentioned. What is happening is that at this time the channels of communication must remain open with Türkiye. What has been put on the table should be the subject of discussion exclusively on the basis of International Law. Obviously, issues that lie outside the agenda are not discussed, such as sovereignty issues, that is, the structure of defence forces, territorial waters, and issues pertaining to the country's international partnerships. What Türkiye is seeking with this stance is a subject of analysis, which is being carried out by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Greek government. I do, however, want to tell you - and I say this sincerely, it may at some point sound somewhat luxurious and detached from reality - that Greece today in its foreign policy has acquired a kind of real dynamism and power that is not defined itself by the actions of others. And this is significant. Türkiye will do what it will do. We, however, have the possibility, the capacity of the relationship, to be able to have resilient counter-arguments, which will also lead to the prevailing of our own position. Therefore, irrespective of the underlying causes that lead Türkiye to this escalation, which may be due to the broader geopolitical circumstances in the region, they may be due to the relationship we have developed with Israel or with the Arab world or, more specifically, with other countries. What I must tell you is that Greece has independently managed to be at the strongest point, in terms of international power, that it has ever been. And I assure you that it will capitalise on this by every possible means.

JOURNALIST: One last question about Türkiye, because yesterday we had the information that Athens made a démarche regarding the marine parks, regarding spatial planning for industry. You were also at the Foreign Affairs Council. Was the issue raised at the European Union? How are these challenges addressed by the European partners? Given that Türkiye is also trying to enter European defence, to claim a greater role of cooperation with the European Union. Although President Erdoğan has his ups and downs regarding what he ultimately wants.

G. GERAPETRITIS: First of all, diplomatic protocol is always followed with regard to issues that cause tensions or violate International Law. In this context, official démarches were submitted to the Turkish side, both in relation to the marine environmental parks and in relation to reactions expressed regarding the special spatial plans that Greece establishes in a sovereign manner. Another very important initiative that we are undertaking and which shapes a new reality in the Aegean. New arguments put forward by Greece. I had the opportunity to brief my counterparts at the Foreign Affairs Council, at the informal meeting which took place in Ireland. It is obvious that there is, and we look forward to, the support and solidarity of both the European Union and the Member States. After all, the issues we refer to, because they are based on doctrines which have no basis either in international or European law, have already been condemned in European Council conclusions and in reports of the European Parliament. The President of the European Council referred to this issue just yesterday in a clear manner, supporting Greece in the face ofo unilateral actions directed against its sovereign rights. It goes without saying that Europe will provide its support to Greece in any threat that exists against our country.

JOURNALIST: Defence is now emerging as a means of diplomacy, both through arms procurements and through cooperation between countries. Recently, Greece proceeded with a very large agreement with Israel. It does not exactly fall under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, however it shows that Greece is forging a strong cooperation with Israel. We have the Achilles Shield, 3 billion euros. The largest agreement for Israel as well. Does this cooperation affect us with regard to our relations with the Arab countries and potentially Türkiye, but also with regard to what position we should maintain in such a sensitive region and period?

G. GERAPETRITIS: You correctly mentioned that the defence industry has become a diplomatic and geopolitical weapon. Türkiye has developed an autonomous defence industry for more than three decades, which it uses extensively as a diplomatic weapon and in the relations it develops with regional and international markets.

JOURNALIST: We are behind.

G. GERAPETRITIS: The reality is that for several years we had fallen behind. The economic crisis that struck Greece unfortunately set back the issues of the Greek defence industry, but also of defence procurements. Over the last seven years there has been significant advancement and, particularly in recent years, we have been greatly strengthened both in terms of defence procurement programmes and at the level of the air force and navy in particular, as well as, additionally, in the structure of defence forces and research. A major effort is being made by the Ministry of National Defence and the General Staff so that Greece may once again become a producing country and on top of becoming a producer, also become an innovator. This is absolutely necessary in the modern geopolitical environment. Look at how much the conditions of warfare have changed following the war in Ukraine, where I think that the lessons should now become the subject of very extensive research into how a modern armed force should be structured.

Within this framework, Greece is arming itself, arming itself intelligently, arming itself with armaments from allied countries. There is diversification. Obviously, we do not procure only from one country. We have, as you know, French frigates and Rafale-type aircraft. We will procure the state-of-the-art F-35s in less than two years from the United States. We have had military equipment from Israel. I want to tell you with certainty that there will be no disruption with regard to our diplomatic alliances. And this is because our alliances today are firmly structured, they are very strong. And I want to tell you that Greece is one of the few countries that have excellent strategic relations with countries which may themselves have issues with one another. For example, the simplest one: Greece has a strategic alliance with Israel but also with most countries of the Arab world. We have excellent relations. That is to say, at this moment we have reached that level whereby the deep strategic relationship is not shaken by any external event. Just yesterday I had the opportunity to speak with my Saudi and Egyptian counterparts and confirm the depth and dynamism of our relationship.

JOURNALIST: The fact that Greece has deployed a Patriot battery to Saudi Arabia and that you speak more frequently with the Egyptian counterpart than the public knows, these are almost weekly, we could say, conversations. The problems that Greece may potentially face with Egypt as well - we had the story with Saint Catherine's Monastery in Sinai, we have other issues, we also see some efforts at rapprochement between the countries. Are we building, also through defence, a more solid relationship? And what do these countries expect from Greece?

G. GERAPETRITIS: There are countries that are a primary target for Greece with regard to diplomatic relations - as you correctly mentioned, Egypt is one of them. The relationship I have developed with the Foreign Minister of Egypt is fraternal. Hence, we have very frequent communication on the many issues that are of common interest. First of all, let me tell you that Greece was the driving country within the European Union for deepening the relationship between the European Union and Egypt and for the release of significant economic protocols towards Egypt in support of the Egyptian economy, which was significantly affected both by the war in Iran and previously by the global crises that emerged.

With regard to the issue of Saint Catherine's Monastery in Sinai, Greece and Egypt are cooperating. There has already been a preliminary understanding. At this time, it is up to the monastic community itself to decide on the future of the agreement. It is important to say that for the first time in 15 centuries during which the Monastery has been operating, a structured effort is being made to establish a special regulatory regime for the Monastery and not to consider it a simple antiquity. We must never consider Saint Catherine's Monastery as an ordinary common antiquity.

What I want to assure you of, because you also referred to the relations that Egypt is developing with other countries - as we reaffirm in every communication with the Egyptian Foreign Minister - is that, of course, both countries are also developing other alliances. It is logical for every country to ensure that it has good relations with other countries, regional or somewhat more distant. However, you can have a strategic relationship only with a few countries and the relationship between Greece and Egypt is deeply rooted and strategic today.

JOURNALIST: However, there is a criticism being voiced which says the following: that Greece has sent Patriot missiles to Saudi Arabia, which have indeed proved to be active, with the result that the Greek government is essentially also being accused of involving Greece in the war with Iran. On the other hand, however, we see Saudi Arabia concluding agreements with Türkiye. What do you say?

JOURNALIST: Are these two things contradictory?

G. GERAPETRITIS: I think I addressed your question with my previous answer, but I will clarify it. At this time, Greece has a strategic relationship with the countries of the Gulf. The Gulf constitutes a geographical entity of major importance, not only for global trade, but also for global geopolitics. Greece, therefore, has in recent years become a security exporter to the Gulf countries and not only to Saudi Arabia, but also to the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. Providing security to countries that are critical to the global architecture, both in terms of diplomacy and defence, is of very great geopolitical significance. Therefore, the Patriot battery which is located in Saudi Arabia serves a specific purpose, namely to intercept attacks which have knock-on consequences for Greece as well. They also, however, have a major geopolitical added value. Let us understand this; it is extremely important. Of course, it is also connected with the needs of our country, the defence needs of our country, and this is why it is always an operational choice, at the end of the day, where we will have the Patriot batteries.

On the other hand, I would like to note that Saudi Arabia, like every country, may have discussions or cooperation with other countries. And again, however, I will tell you that both for Saudi Arabia and for other countries in the region, the depth of their strategic relationship with Greece is beyond any other cooperation.

JOURNALIST: Therefore, the orientation of the Armed Forces now is not purely for the security of the country, but they also act as a means of diplomacy. They can export diplomacy and security, you tell us.

G. GERAPETRITIS: This is what I mentioned earlier and it is extremely important. Greece, from being a customer of security systems, has become an exporter of security at regional and global level. And you now see how an interactive defence diplomacy operates. You see the rivalries that currently exist, for example, in Africa. There are very many external actors in Africa and they use their defence industry precisely as a vehicle.

We will never enter into such a competition with regard to our presence abroad. For us, the only real power that can be produced is the country's defence shield. And the country's defence shield is produced through advanced security systems, which we import, primarily through advanced systems and innovation, which we establish domestically, and, of course, through the very major geopolitical alliances which we have concluded. Greece, to say this as well - because many times we become somewhat inward-looking with regard to our own affairs - Greece at this moment is at the centre of global diplomacy.

In a few days, Greece assumes the presidency of the UN Security Council, perhaps at the most critical moment of the United Nations, and in less than a year it assumes the presidency of the Council of the European Union. Not merely at the forefront, but the key player upon which a new phase of the global security architecture will be built.

JOURNALIST: In such a period, however, when revisionism appears to be becoming the norm and is now being adopted even by major allies of Greece, albeit indirectly, what can the role of the United Nations be? How can Greece influence things through this and not simply become a follower of developments and ultimately support moves that are condemned by international morality, I would say, of earlier times?

G. GERAPETRITIS: International multilateralism will never disappear, because it is a real necessity and because global phenomena are such that they produce universal crises. The United Nations may be going through a period of decline, indeed, because no tangible result has been produced in the major crises we are experiencing in Ukraine, in the Middle East, in Africa. On the other hand, the United Nations is making an effort to evolve. You know that the decision-making process within the United Nations itself, which dates back to the 1950s, has now reached a limit, because it is extremely difficult, with the veto that exists, for quick, substantive, beneficial decisions to be taken. On the other hand, if you have, for example, universal crises, global pandemic crises, the major food crisis which may arise also due to the reduction in grain exports from Ukraine, when you have a climate crisis, which we experience every year with increasing pain due to the increase in large-scale fires across the globe, and when we have the largest number of global conflicts that have ever existed, the solution can only be sought in international multilateralism.

If power increases in states that may be decisive, this does not mean that the pillar of the international security architecture, which is multilateralism, should recede. Greece can contribute greatly in this direction, because it is the country which, beyond its critical geographical position at the crossroads of three continents, is one of the few countries that communicates with North, South, East and West and can play a real role, not only as a mediator, but essentially we can have a role in redefining the fundamental values that govern international multilateralism and the UN Charter.

JOURNALIST: When powers such as the United States become, if I may use the expression, the elephant in the room regarding the questioning of International Law and sometimes contribute, potentially through their rhetoric, to questioning rules that we knew until today, how can this be addressed?

G. GERAPETRITIS: I think there are ways and, in a sense, even the American administration that emerged from the latest elections also functioned as a lever of awakening across many issues. The redefinition, for example, of relations between the United States and Europe, the old notion of a unified "West", is extremely decisive, because it essentially led us to a new understanding regarding the need to have an autonomy which will not simply be of a strategic nature, but will be of an existential nature. The new logic of the European Union is no longer overdependence, as used to be the case, on the United States for security and on Russia for energy, but strategic autonomy based on diversifications..

We must have diversified energy resources, because this is necessary for the survival of each country and collectively of Europe, just as we must also have diversification with regard to security sources. The major effort being made today in Europe to develop integrated defence resilience programmes, defence programmes that will connect the peoples of Europe, is a critical crossroads. And there, the position of Greece is extremely important, which in reality determined the terms of the participation of third countries in the European security architecture. Let us remember these things as well.

JOURNALIST: However, Minister, there is also criticism being voiced towards the Greek government and I am essentially continuing the question, that perhaps in some way it has become more closely tied than some would like to the chariot of the United States. A criticism that is also voiced by members of your political party. I therefore wonder, what is your response to this criticism? Do you consider that it has a basis or, in any case, do you believe that the Greek side is pursuing some other strategy in relation to the criticism voiced?

G. GERAPETRITIS: Foreign policy has an extremely critical characteristic. It is based on facts. And because their character is objective, it can easily overcome arguments that are unsound. I simply want to remind you that until the American elections and immediately after the elections, the basic argument was that Greece had overinvested in the previous American Administration and would be left out in the cold. And suddenly Greek-American relations would go to the depths, to the benefit of other countries. We saw exactly the opposite happening, alliances being strengthened, energy cooperation being strengthened, defence cooperation being strengthened, ties with the West being strengthened. Therefore, the narrative, which was initially overinvestment in a subset of American policy, today becomes overdependence on the new Administration. It is obvious that all of this is contradictory, but it also has absolutely no basis in reality.

What is the reality? The reality is that there is an excellent cooperation with the United States. Indeed, there are direct channels of communication. I have the honour and privilege of speaking with the American Secretary of State, whom we will welcome within the framework of the strategic dialogue in the coming months, and, in addition, this relationship has very significant added value for our country. I heard you say that Greece is overdependent on the United States. The reality is that the diplomatic diversification that Greece has today has never existed before. And this is because it has a strategic relationship with the United States, a strategic relationship with Israel, a strategic relationship with most countries of the Arab world, a strategic relationship with India. It is a truly large-scale international multilateralism, which allows us to operate autonomously, to be able to strengthen our diplomatic footprint, without, on the other hand, having the disadvantage of being exclusively dependent on someone.

JOURNALIST: Minister, thank you very much for being with us.

G. GERAPETRITIS: I think I satisfied your diplomatic curiosity a little.

JOURNALIST: We would need much more time, to tell the truth, but they are signalling to us to wrap it up.

G. GERAPETRITIS: Hopefully we'll be well next yea,r and we'll talk again, in whatever capacity.

JOURNALIST: Thank you very much!

G. GERAPETRITIS: Take care.

September 4, 2026