TRANSCRIPT: MTA Chair and CEO Lieber Appears on WCNY’s Capitol Pressroom Podcast with David Lombardo

MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber appeared on WCNY's Capitol Pressroom with David Lombardo to discuss transportation proposals in the 2026 Executive Budget and other transportation-related issues.

A transcript of the interview appears below.

David Lombardo: This is WCNY's Capitol Press Room, and we're joined in the studio by Janno Lieber, Chair and CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the public transit system serving New York City and the surrounding counties. Welcome to the show, Chairman Lieber.

Lombardo: So you're in town this week for the budget hearing on the transportation portion of the governor's budget, and I'm curious if a lawmaker asks you for any sort of change to state law, not necessarily money because there's always money requests, but state law, is there anything that you're looking for this year?

Lieber: It's a good question. The last couple of years we've had big issues on the table in Albany, not so this year, and that's because in 23, Governor Hochul helped us to address the MTA's budget deficit coming out of COVID and last year we were able to enact the largest ever MTA capital program. All of this done interestingly, with the support of the business community and paid little extra tax. And the MTA is actually in decent financial shape right now, probably had the best year last year, 2025, that it's ever had. So, this year we're not really, we don't have any big asks on the table. We are here to talk about the governor's auto insurance proposal, however, which has big impact for any operator who has a large fleet.

Lombardo: Yeah, well, why is the car insurance something that the MTA cares about? Because I have to imagine there are people listening who say intuitively, OK, I understand why me as an individual driver or someone who might utilize Uber, cares about something like this, but why is this something on the MTA's radar?

Lieber: Well, number one, obviously the governor's proposal is directed at average New Yorkers who own automobiles, which is the majority by a lot, and they're paying like $4,000 a piece for car insurance, most, I think the highest in the country. So that's the focus of her proposal, but if you're like the MTA and you have a fleet of say 6,000 buses that are constantly being the subject of lawsuits - you know, some of them fraudulent, some of them lawsuits brought by people who are committing crimes who are running red lights or, engaged in all kinds of stuff - then it has a huge impact to our budget. We have to set aside like several $100 million a year for these kinds of lawsuits, and a lot of them we end up paying even if we're held to be 1% responsible for a bus-auto crash. And then they can collect the whole damages from us. So we're deep pocket - the plaintiff's lawyers tend to look around to see if there's an MTA bus they can blame for any car accident, and the governor is taking action to, to try to reduce that huge burden on the taxpayers as well as to reduce auto insurance for individual New Yorkers.

Lombardo: So you bring up the issue of fraud, and I'm curious if you have good data on examples of fraud or whether it is more of an anecdotal case by case accounting of fraud, because when the New York State Trial Lawyers Association talk about this issue and they have us get in this game, as, as you pointed out, they're the plaintiffs in a lot of these cases, they argue that the cases of fraud are overblown and misrepresented and that efforts to limit lawsuits are essentially limiting the civil rights of New Yorkers.

Lieber: OK, so I'm going to defer. The governor and her team have laid out some of the specifics on that front. I can tell you about the MTA's point of view because, again, there is this exception to the law. Normally, you can only be held accountable for an act of the full value or the full damages of an accident if you're over 50% responsible, but there's an exception in the motor vehicle law that makes the MTA responsible even if we're only 1% to blame for an accident and because we are a big government agency that is quote unquote a deep pocket there are a lot of cases where people will, you know, these e-bike riders or people who are running red lights, will say, well the MTA bus that hit me - even though I was running a red light and I was drunk or I was right next and behind them and grabbing onto the fender - if we're held 1% responsible we can be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in damages for so-called pain and suffering, and that has resulted in there being a huge hit to the MTA budget, which is taking money away from service and from other improvements that the public wants us to make. And frankly, it's hitting the taxpayers with a bill that they don't deserve, so that's where we're coming from on this entire issue.

Lombardo: Well, I want to pivot to another issue, and that's travel to Albany. And last year, after Amtrak said it would cancel 3 daily round trips along the Empire Service corridor, Governor Hochul announced Metro-North would add a service between Manhattan and Albany. That plan has been scrapped in light of announcements from Amtrak, but I'm curious, what would it take for the MTA to revisit this idea? Are there circumstances short of Amtrak scrapping its services where you would expand your footprint into Albany?

Lieber: I think the governor said it pretty directly last week, which is even though Amtrak now is backed out of the agreement for MTA to run a train or two to Albany on a regular basis, we're interested in continuing to explore that, and the governor, as the governor said, we got a lot of positive response because people are interested in the idea of a train that doesn't suddenly cost 100 bucks, or even more on a holiday or summer weekend. They're interested in a more affordable option. A single Metro-North train can carry as many people as you know, 2 or even 3 Amtrak trains, and everybody was excited about it. Now, I think the governor succeeded because she kind of smoked Amtrak out, and initially they said we had to cut service to Albany because of the work in the East River tunnels, and she said, 'well, why can't you run an extra train or two from Grand Central?' And they said, 'Well, we don't have enough trains.' So then we said, 'OK, we'll run the Metro-North service,' and they agreed to it. But once they saw how enthusiastic people were about Metro-North, it seemed like they feared the competition and they backed away. And the governor got what she wanted, which is a restoration of full service, but she also heard clearly that people are interested in having us come north of Poughkeepsie, and we're going to explore it.

Lombardo: Well, what are the circumstances where travel that far north would make sense? Is it all about a financial question that you have to answer, are there other hurdles that would need to be overcome to make this type of travel make sense?

Lieber: There, there's a lot of bureaucratic stuff.

Lombardo: Like what?

Lieber: To give us access to, you know, the tracks north of Poughkeepsie, I think belong to CSX and Amtrak has a right to operate them. So we need the approval of Amtrak and CSX to operate. We have to train our train operators, the engineers, technically, they need to have training to run on that particular territory. There's some other technical bureaucratic issues, but there's nothing to stop it from happening promptly if all the political forces agree and we're ready to do it if the state of New York and Amtrak, can come to an agreement to let it happen, we would, we'd be interested in doing it. There's no reason, no reason to stop in Poughkeepsie if we could serve Hudson Valley and Albany. Maybe we can go to Saratoga in the summer when the races are on, who knows?

Lombardo: I think that would be a trip that would be in high demand. Turning to another issue, but first, let me reintroduce you for listeners who are just joining us. This is WCNY's the Capitol Press Room, and we're speaking with Janno Lieber, Chair and CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. So right now, as most people around New York State know, the mayor of New York City wants free buses. The governor is not on board with that proposal as it's been pitched right now. Is there a middle ground between no and yes? Because we did see a pilot program a few years ago with I think 5 or 10 lines throughout the city, and I'm curious if there is something that makes sense incrementally, or is this one of those issues where it has to be all or nothing because if it is partial, it breeds a lot of confusion about what people have access to.

Lieber: Well, first of all, I've said it consistently, but I'll say it again. It's good for transit riders and for everybody that we have a pro-transit mayor in New York. So you know we can talk about areas of agreement and disagreement, but that's a positive because the MTA is, you know, kind of the lifeblood of New York's economy - it's the thing that makes New York possible with our density, we couldn't do it unless we had great mass transit, so, MTA success is going to be something that, I think we're going to get prioritized by this City Hall. Listen, I've been open about the fact that from my standpoint this is something that is a huge change that's being talked about that can't be treated like as a bumper sticker that just gets implemented, it would require a ton of study - a study not just of what the bus system would look like, but what would it do to the subway system, how many more buses would we need, bus operators, would I need a new depot, yadda yadda yada. It's a really big, complicated issue. That said, what we are prioritizing at the MTA. We've been doing it for a while is equity, so that...

Lombardo: I want to interrupt you for a second.

Lieber: Yeah.

Lombardo: So I understand that pitch that you guys have made. You've been very public and talked about this a lot.

Lieber: Yeah.

Lombardo: But I guess I'm curious, is there any benefit to any sort of incremental approach, or do you think those types of pilot programs like we saw in the past that were authorized by the State legislature, are those problematic and could potentially be, more of a headache than a positive if we are trying to move towards free buses?

Lieber: I'm not against, I'm not against pilot programs. We do those. That pilot program a couple of years ago had mixed results. They did get a little more ridership on the five lines that were made free, but, you also, they moved much more slowly, and they mostly were cannibalizing other lines that were paying lines rather than adding new riders. So they had mixed results - more ridership, but you know if you're interested in fast as well as free, they weren't a total success and so we're looking at that and it requires more study, as I said. But my priority personally and I think it's sort of--what you've heard from the MTA is let's, you know, there are 5 or 6 times as many subway riders as there are bus riders. So if we're, if there's money flying around our first interest is in folks of limited means who really need the extra help. We have, you know, 1.5 million reduced-fare riders, a lot of those are seniors and people with disabilities. Let's make it also cheaper for people, working-class or the working poor as people sometimes say, who cannot qualify for a reduced fare right now. If you work 40 hours a week on minimum wage in New York and you're really struggling, you still don't get that reduced fare because the city's Fair Fares program ends at $40 or $45,000 a year for a family of four, which is too low. So my priority is whether you're riding the bus or the subway, let's make it more affordable for people who need the help. There are a lot of people who ride the bus in New York who have $3 million apartments, those are not my priority. You know Zohran Mamdani grew up in a neighborhood where his parents still live, and I grew up in the same neighborhood and that it's become a very rich neighborhood. Those people riding the bus not my priority. I want to make sure that the people of Brooklyn and Queens who ride the bus to get on the subway, who would not benefit from a free bus because that would be a paid transfer that they get a break, that's the way I'm looking at it.

Lombardo: You mentioned the subsidized fares. Would you like to see the state make more funding available so that the threshold for who qualifies for those types of programs could be higher and more meaningful?

Lieber: I think that's a decision that the governor is going to have, is going to wrestle with as she...

Lombardo: But if you get asked that question by state lawmakers, would you say, no, sorry, I got to turn it down. I have to wait to see what the governor has to say?

Lieber: Well, generally, obviously when you're talking about budget matters, we are deferential to the governor. She plays on the big field where there are a lot of different issues that need to be reconciled, but as you heard from me that, you know, that idea of the state and the city combining to make it more affordable for the people of limited means is an approach that I definitely favor. Listen, we cut the price of New York City travel on Metro-North and Long Island Railroad significantly down. We've made it possible for people to take kids on commuter railroads for a buck. We've kept the fare down 2% increase even though our workforce gets a 3 to 3.5% annual pay increase. We're interested in keeping it affordable.

Lombardo: Governor Hochul has been pausing or scaling back some of the state's climate emissions and green energy goals, and the MTA has its own green goals like having a zero-emission bus fleet by 2040. Are you on track to transition your fleet of nearly 6,000 vehicles in the 14 years between now and 2040, or is that an area like say how school districts are looking for relief from their school bus mandate where you're looking for some sort of relief or additional support?

Lieber: A good question, David. No, we are very much committed to the 2040 deadline, but being straight up with everybody, we are struggling because the electric buses that have arrived, that have arrived in our system and that have been piloted so far, are breaking down much too frequently. And we are, they're continuing to improve the technology, but just like the folks who operate school buses are finding, the pace of this transition needs to take account of what looks like a slower pace of the technology development with electric buses. So we are, we are definitely looking at that issue as potentially impacting on the pace of our electrification transition for New York City buses.

Lombardo: Well, how does the reality of that experience change or alter or delay your efforts to go green in various ways? Do you focus your money on other areas where they seem to be making more progress, or do you just continue to try to figure out how to make the zero emission buses work even if there are diminishing or lackluster returns?

Lieber: Well, I'll tell you this, David, when you're talking about climate change and environmentalism, transit is, you know, is the antidote to climate change. I mean just the fact of getting people to use transit more as an alternative to automobiles, that's what makes New York greener. So, yes, the technology that we use and which you know technology system we use in our buses is important, but the biggest issue is making fast, reliable transit so more people will use that instead of coming in a car. So we have to balance the technology, you know, the technology with the reality of what's going to attract customers, and right now if you ran all electric buses, you wouldn't have, you would be losing customers because they're breaking down all the time right now. However, the buses that we're getting, in substitution for maybe some of the electric buses we were buying, are going to be residential gas and other greener technologies, we have clean diesel. There are other options that can help us to get to our emissions goal, and we're going to be continuing to work in that direction.

Lombardo: We often hear the governor talk about efforts to collect what users of the system should be paying, whether that's from tolls or fares. The legislature is not necessarily always on board with what the governor is laying out, and they're not necessarily championing more aggressive approaches to collection. And I'm curious whether you feel like you have a good partner in the Democratic majorities or whether you feel like sometimes their approach or their philosophies undermine your efforts and might even contribute to more of the evasion issue.

Lieber: Across the board, I would say this legislature has been a great partner for the governor on transit issues. The governor has been a great pro-transit governor; legislature has been a great partner on the specific issue you're talking about. There's no question I would like to see a more aggressive approach on the issue of toll evasion. Last year we came with a package of initiatives, among other things, to crack down a little bit on people who have fake plates or these devices that hide the numbers of the plate or alter the plates. We have to make sure that just like we are pushing back against fare evasion on the subways and the buses that we also don't let people, wander around using devices to avoid tolls, and there are some people who do that. We've done hundreds together with the NYPD and other law enforcement. We've done hundreds of initiatives on our bridges and tunnels, on the highways around New York, to catch people who have ghost plates who are in many cases involved with crime. These fake plates are a huge crime issue as well as being a toll collection and we would like more powers to crack down on them and put people who are actually producing them and distributing them out of business. That's our goal.

Lombardo: Do you feel like the enforcement of evasion, whether it's with drivers or whether it's people on the subways or buses, has been uniformly enforced, or are you concerned about the people who are supposed to be policing this kind of picking and choosing their spots?

Lieber: No, I think that everybody is pulling in the same direction. We've made a lot of progress on subway fare evasion, 30% down in the last five quarters in a year and a quarter, so proud of that, continuing to push back on bus fare evasion. When we get to when we finalize our transition to all digital, the so-called OMNY system, away from the old MetroCard system, which we're pretty close to doing, we're going to be able to do more fare evasion enforcement on the buses, but we need the tools to push back on people who are running up huge bills on the tolled crossings in New York and just avoiding payment. That's an issue, and there's no reason why someone who's caught with a fake plate or a device that covers or alters their plate should be able to drive away with that same device intact. We've got to be able to confiscate it. We, you know, we've already impounded 6,000 cars. We need more powers to enforce on toll evasion, which is a real issue of fairness as well as economics.

Lombardo: There is a population north of New York City, generally west of the Hudson, that feels that they don't get a good bang for their buck when it comes to MTA services and capital investments. What do you think of that critique, and if you do think there is some validity to it, what does equitable distribution of resources look like in the future?

Lieber: It's a good question, you know, I'm very sympathetic. The counties you're talking about are basically Rockland and Orange. The one county that, you know, technically, says they have a deficit with the MTA is Rockland, but here's the thing, we don't control the train service that comes in the direction of New York from west of Hudson, from Rockland, Orange County really is New Jersey Transit service. So I can't tell them I'm gonna make it better. New Jersey Transit is struggling, there's no question. What we're doing is trying to give people the option to come across the Hudson River quickly and reliably and take the Metro-North service on our side of the Hudson, which is fantastic. Last year it had like a 98% on-time performance. It's great service, the riders love it, so you know we're incentivizing people. If you have a monthly ticket for west of Hudson, we'll accept it on east of Hudson. We're making the parking fees really low and we've added bus service that goes back and forth between Newburgh and Beacon that is meeting all of the trains that come in at the Beacon station so people can really be sure if I need to come home early, will I be able to get that bus to wherever I park my car on the west of Hudson. So we're trying to bring those west of Hudson customers to the quality MTA Metro-North service that's east of Hudson and I'm happy to continue to work with them because we want them to have more transit options and more appealing transit set of options.

Lombardo: Most of those things you flagged though seem primarily in sort of the operating side of the ledger. Is there any capital that you would point to that is in the works or that could be coming down the pike that might satisfy their concerns about equitable treatment?

Lieber: Listen, we look at every idea for a big capital improvement, a new train, an extension, you know, whether it's adding new signaling, whatever, we look at them comparatively based on how many people they will benefit, how much time they will save, equity, and a lot of other variables. So far there's no big investment on the west of Hudson side, that is in Rockland and Orange County that measures up and a lot of it has to do with the fact that there are a very small number of people who are taking that train right now, but we're going to continue to study that because I do want that community to feel, you know, that they're more invested in the MTA system and frankly as we continue to develop as a region, we want that to be easier to get to and from those two, you know, counties which are growing.

Lombardo: Well, we've been speaking with Janno Lieber. He's the Chair and CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Janno, thanks so much for visiting us in the studio. I really appreciate it.

Lieber: You bet, David.

Lombardo: Good to be with you.