Reflections After Artemis II

From Earth orbit to the Moon and Mars, explore the world of human spaceflight with NASA each week on the official podcast of the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Listen to in-depth conversations with the astronauts, scientists and engineers who make it possible.

On episode 441, Artemis II astronauts Victor Glover and Jeremy Hansen reflect on memorable mission moments, new perspectives, and what comes next after their historic journey around the Moon. This episode was recorded in July and August 2026.

Transcript

Gary Jordan

Houston We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 441: Reflections After Artemis II. I'm Gary Jordan, and I'll be your host today. On this podcast, we bring in the experts: scientists, engineers, and astronauts, all to let you know what's going on in the world of human spaceflight and more.

Artemis II captivated the world with breathtaking imagery and emotional moments, and it reinvigorated an excitement about the future of deep space human space exploration. Commander Reid Wiseman, pilot Victor Glover, and mission specialists Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen experienced the adventure of a lifetime. And for the past few months, since their splashdown on April 10th, they've had a chance to share their experiences around the U.S., Canada, and Europe, connecting with the public as well as the leagues of scientists and engineers that help make the mission a success.

On episode 440, you heard Reid and Christina share some of their Artemis II experiences. On 441, after the conclusion of their mission and before their retirement, we sat down with Victor and Jeremy to reflect on memorable moments, shifts in perspectives, and what comes next. It was a pleasure to speak with them, and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

Let's get right to it.

Gary Jordan

Jeremy Hansen, welcome back to Houston We Have a Podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you in the studio with us today.

Jeremy Hansen

Ah, great to be with you.

Gary Jordan

Yeah, last we talked with you was before this historic mission, so I feel like we have a lot to catch up on. I looked at the date; it's July 30th that we're recording this. Four months ago, at this very moment, you were two days from launch. So a lot has happened in the last four months, right?

You got to experience your first space flight, which just so happened to be around the Moon. You've been traveling all around the world. Give us a little bit of a of a look back of the last four months. What has you know? What has it been like? Just high level.

Jeremy Hansen

Only four months. I feels like a feels like longer. It it's been it's been a whirlwind, but also really positive. It's been really heartwarming to feel people around the world connected with something creative and positive, collaborative. I just hear over and over again. We, I felt like I went on the mission with you, and we just loved watching the four of you work together. We loved learning about the team in Houston and around the world, and like what it took to get there. It's really been remarkable to receive all of that, and quite frankly humbling because we often are the face of the program as a crew, but we represent an enormous team of people. All this praise is being heaped on us, but in reality, it's it reflects just so incredibly on the thousands of people it took to make that happen.

Gary Jordan

You were the face that they were connecting with, like you said. Well, like we were we were doing 24/7 broadcasts, and and we were showing inside the cabin. People felt like they were inside the cabin. They could tune in, and their day was looking at you guys and seeing what you were doing, and and just going into it's it's magical, really. It really was, and you were the face of it. But yes, there's a whole army of people that are behind it, actually making it happen. It takes a lot to get to that to to get to that point.

Let's start, let's go chronologically. Four months ago, you were two days from launch. You're get you're you're getting ready, and just in a couple of days, you're going to get strapped in. Take us through those couple of moments, all the way through launch. That launch experience on an SLS as your first, as your first launch, and then experiencing space for the first couple days.

Jeremy Hansen

For me, that launch time frame, a lot of what's in there is in those memories is family. You know, being at the Cape's really special place in quarantine with your family, and then these precious days before this high stress event that's coming for your family, walks on the beach, swimming in the ocean together, and in and amongst all of that pressure, feeling very much at peace with it. That was what was remarkable to me. I wasn't sure how I would feel leading up to it. I didn't know if it would be a struggle to sort of compartmentalize the stress of the moment. But in in hindsight, I was really at peace. I was sleeping, you know, the full eight hours each night. The night before launch, I I just told my body, I'm like, we really need to sleep, and and I had a great night's sleep. Woke up when Sean Duvall woke me and said, "Things are proceeding on on schedule. They're fueling the the rocket, and it's time to suit up."

And so we got up and went through that whole process, which we had trained. And the the big difference is time when we got to the rocket, it was it was breathing and it was alive, and you could you could see the The gasses coming out of the engines and out of the vent ports on the rocket, and it had a very different feel that day. And got up, got strapped in, and sort of in in my mind was, you know, ready to go, but not super optimistic we would go on the first try. I guess I was sort of protecting myself. I thought the most likely outcome is that we scrub today. It's the first time we've got to this point with the rocket, and what are the odds we get off in the the beginning of the launch window on the first day of the window? But the clock just kept moving, and when we went, you know, came inside 10 minutes, I was like, "Wow, we might actually go today." But it's still in the back of my mind. And you know, the the launch can scrub right until the the solids light, and then there's no turning back. And when I started to feel the rocket come alive, you know, I could feel the sort of the rumbling vibration of stuff happening down at the bottom with the the four RS-25s gimbling and lighting, and then all of a sudden, boom! We're on our way. I'm like, "wow, we are really going to space. This is really happening." It was pretty extraordinary, and the ride uphill was was just fun. I I put a smile on my face, and just all the feels. I was really able to just sort of like take it in, and was keeping up with the checklist and all of the nominal calls, but it just went like clockwork. And the G's build up, and and the sound!

In the simulator it simulates the sound building, the wind rushing by, and that was very accurate. I thought that was interesting. I had a helmet on, I had earplugs in, and it was still loud. I could feel the wind as we got to max Q, the wind outside was really rippling by. We were in this massive windstorm that was pretty neat.

Gary Jordan

Wow, you know, I had I had the pleasure of participating in a lot of your Sims leading up to the mission, and a lot of the things that we train for is when things go wrong, right? And so a lot of the times when we were on console, we were addressing those issues. And a lot of the times that I I experienced from Mission Control going uphill, something was going wrong. Something, like there was a lot of chatter. They were solving problems, right? But like you said, it was like clockwork. We didn't really get to train train that too many times, but just to have that and and that ascent go as clean as possible was truly it was it was wonderful because you could kind of step into the magic a little bit instead of just worrying about what what the problem-

Jeremy Hansen

There is this aspect of you know having never flown on that vehicle before. Any of us, yeah. You do have a lot of these moments of like, is that normal? And then you're like, oh, I guess it was because we're still we're still alive! But there is a lot of that.

You know, the the the how long the thrust dropped off as we were getting rid of the solids kind of surprised me a little bit. What that felt like felt like we were carrying them maybe just a little longer than I anticipated. But in the sim, you never have those feelings. You never have the other inputs, and and those are the ones that cause your brain to be like, okay, we're going to be okay. You have a lot of those going uphill.

Gary Jordan

It's like playing like a like a race car video game with the steering wheel. Like I mean, you can kind of get the feel of it, but you actually don't… like it's a totally different thing to be in the car, right? You actually feel the road, you feel the wind. Not that I'm a race car driver, but trying to avoid it to just like normal driving and playing a video game, but-

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, absolutely.

Gary Jordan

What an experience! Just to to hear it from your perspective, and I know that you know you're you've got the chance to not only experience it, but then you know once once in space, that's a that's a different thing, right? Launch is one thing, but then I know you're floating in this new environment. You're you're going through the checklist. You're doing the things that you have trained for in the sims.

If you could just maybe we'll take a step into those 10 days in orbit, and what it was like in Orion, and just zooming back, looking at the overall perspective of the flight now a couple months separated from it. You know how are you characterizing the entirety of the experience over those 10 days?

Jeremy Hansen

Well, there's a lot that you could you could dig into there.

Gary Jordan

Yeah, it's a big question. Yeah.

Jeremy Hansen

The, you know I think one thing that comes to mind is we are busy, really busy, and really working together to try to stay on the schedule. It felt the whole time like we were doing well. That, you know, we were getting the important things done, and operationally we were in a good place. But we weren't getting all the things done that we you know thought we might be able to, or that were on the schedule, and we were having to sort of triage what we prioritized, and so it was really busy. But the, we have spent a lot of at that point in three years training as a as a team, and we do know how to communicate, you know, and not even always verbally, and just kind of a sense of what's needed, and ask for help early, and and find efficiencies and sort of adapt and that that was just happening. And that, I guess gave us the space to look out the window and take in these moments, and just absolute awe of what we were seeing. And that happened every single day, multiple times a day, where somebody would catch something at the window, and we'd all go look, and completely blown away.

One of the things, like I distinctly remember thinking is, if this was all I came for, this moment, like on day one, it was worth it. And then having that again on day two and day three, like any one of these things would have been worth the trip and all the training, and that happened day after day after day, and that that was pretty extraordinary.

Gary Jordan

You seem to have an approach even prior to launch, and then day after day, you this approach of managing expectations, right? And I think maybe that helped deal with some of the anticipation because I think when a lot of folks try to imagine themselves in the in your seat in in your experience. There's a lot of, you know, there could be this anxiety, this anticipation, this excitement, right? But you seem to be managing your expectations along the way, and just maybe and not really looking too far ahead or behind, but staying in the moment of let's just let's just let's just enjoy this time on the beach with the family. Let's just take a moment to enjoy that on day one. Just having this moment is enough, right? And maybe that helped to go along the way and and maintain and sustain that that sense of awe and wonder throughout the mission. Thinking that you know this, I don't. It doesn't have to happen perfectly over the over the next 10 days, but just really appreciating that.

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, I think that's accurate, and you know this is the right way to live life in general. But when you go on a mission like this, you- you're acutely aware of the risks. You've thought about them ahead of time, and you, I think it helps put things back in perspective. You do a lot of mental preparation. I did before I went, and I could tell the rest of the crew did as well. Sort of, you're at peace with whatever happens. You sort of get into this mode of "I accept what's coming. I don't know that I'm coming back from this mission. Probably am, most likely am, but I don't know it, and so I'm going to enjoy. I'm going to enjoy it along the way." Those moments, and I think it it helped put things back in perspective, and it still helps me even today. You know, just reminding myself that okay, yeah, there are things that are going to come at us in life that are are challenges, but I've always created a you know a positive outcome of some sort eventually, and I will in this case too.

Gary Jordan

Also, experiencing the sims, I know that you guys are just so busy, right? There's just this huge checklist, and I think taking that that approach of just one step at a time really helps to manage all of that.

There's a lot that we know about the mission from listening to the mission you know throughout the 10 days and. And all of the Orion to Earths and some of the features and discussions. What is maybe something that you would consider a success of the mission that maybe the public might not know? That is not really apparent to the average person. That hey, this just you know this, it took a lot to just do this, and it was quite a success.

Jeremy Hansen

I think we speak of this quite a bit because it's important that the dynamic people witnessed in our crew was hard fought. It's not like we were this magic group of four that got put together and and we just have no issues working together. That's not the reality at all. In fact, I'd say our personality types make that a little bit more challenging. You know, you put four Type A people who you know would all love to be you know leading all the time, but are willing to all be followers. That was- we put a lot of effort into creating a dynamic that worked for not just the four of us, but the six of us, with Jenni and Dre as well. And I think that's that's important for people understand because it could have gone in a different way. You could have put the four of us together, and we could have focused on the attributes of one another that we didn't, you know, we didn't find easy to work with, and we could have gone down that rabbit hole. We went the other way, where we said, you know, we we're four people. We have the same objective. We all want good things for each other. We want to accomplish the mission. We'd love to survive. And so, what is it going to take to make sure we're the best performing team that we can be? And it it took a lot of work. We dedicated a lot of time. We used our behavioral health experts to come in and you know sort of coach us to make us a better team. We put a lot of effort into that, and that's, that is probably one of the most important things we did in preparing because it just allowed us to really truly work together and lift one another up.

Gary Jordan

Yeah, it's it's one of those things that I hear I hear quite a bit actually from astronauts is that how important that teamwork aspect is. Some of your colleagues in the corps come from sports backgrounds and really and they use that as an analogy to talk about what it takes to be a successful team is is acting you know as a group, and and you know like a lot of folks think about astronauts and what it takes to be super smart and you know an expert pilot or you know super smart scientist and you have to and that's like that's the main thing of being an astronaut. But time and time again, I hear about this camaraderie.

Not- and you know you talked about putting efforts into it and I remember kind of jumping forward to when you guys returned, I was lucky to be at the event in Ellington, and especially I recall one moment where Reid described something, and I'm paraphrasing. You know "Nobody knows really what we what the four of us went through," and maybe it's a sense of what you were describing about that interpersonal things. But I think it might be, you know, it's one can assume that it's not just clean. Oh yeah, we got along fine. You know, it's just this static thing. There's highs and there's lows, right? And I think that maybe maybe you can give us a little insight into what he meant by that. "Nobody really knows what we went through." You know, like what is it maybe that made him really reflect on that specifically?

Jeremy Hansen

I think there's two aspects. When when I heard those words from Reid, I I felt like he was to some extent, talking about the things that we experienced as as a group of four. And you know, truly being that far away from home and in a capsule on the far side of the Moon, and the things that we witnessed that put us in this state of awe. Made us feel tiny as individuals, but powerful as a as a human species that that we could do something like that.

And then I do think there's an aspect of that of you know how challenging it is to bring a group together to you know be that intimate all the time in a capsule for 10 days, and to really do that well. How you know, how we got ourselves to that point, and you you talked about like teams, you know. There's a team can learn to work together, and you know when this happens, I'll do this and you do that, and you you can develop those sort of like standard operating procedures that that that makes a team function. But we went beyond that. We went to the point of like really trying to understand one another's pain points. What sets someone off? What are our triggers? What's our baggage? That that required us being really vulnerable with one another, and it didn't happen in like a morning. You know, wasn't, we we spent multiple days digging into this, and and quite a bit of emotion around it. But I think it, A.) it's just good for us, made us better humans. But B.) it helped us really get to the point where we could perform like you saw.

Gary Jordan

And I think it's so critical, not only just being you know like in space. And I think a lot of us, especially me in my career, most of my experience is the International Space Station and working with astronauts that are going there in this you know humongous laboratory. You kind of forget how special that place is because there is so much space, right? But you guys were in a more confined area, which I think made a lot of what we're talking about that much more important because you really did everything together. There really wasn't personal time because I remember, on a lighter note, I remember Victor saying, "You know, when when Jeremy exercised, we all exercised." He said that because this the footprint of just exercise on the flywheel. You know, you got to make way. It's it's a very limited space, and I know that that probably had a lot to do with it. Was you know, we talk about confined spaces in space, and and that as a mental health exercise, but this was kind of on a new level that you know maybe folks that have been here like me and and I you know I haven't gotten the chance to experience Apollo, not even much of shuttle, but international space station. This was on a whole new level.

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, well, and I I don't think the you know this this teamwork is unique to our crew, there are other extraordinary crews that have gone to space or in space. So it's not that, but it is it is a formula to follow, which is you have to invest time and effort into it. One of the things when we were on the, after we landed, and we were on the the G5 jet flying back to Ellington Field, we were we were just chatting the four of us sitting there, and and we were commenting on that there was a lot of grace given on the mission, and that that went a long way. I think we, I know we all really appreciated that the little things, and and never people always framed everything in the positive, and we're always focused on getting to the outcome. And there were missteps, there were mistakes, there was, you know, spraying food all over Victor, but never, never a sense of even being annoyed by it. Just being like, okay. And like that's the example I use. It's a very simple example, but I literally sprayed a bunch of like oatmeal onto Victor's shirt, you know, across the cabin. Because when I ripped the bag open, it just kind of gave way, and and he just he had a spoon in his hand and he just started eating it off of his shirt. He just said, "I I got that." But that that just happened over and over again. A lot of grace was given.

Gary Jordan

I mean, you need to have that approach, right? Otherwise, there's last thing you need in that tight space is tension. And you guys just appreciating the hard work that was put into just that aspect is, I think, truly special.

Now, in terms of post mission, right? I wonder how it felt after you landed. You know, you talked about this moment in the G5, and then we're hearing these these comments at Ellington. I wonder, from your perspective, if it felt like maybe a weight was lifted off of your shoulders, or maybe there was this new weight because you guys came back as almost celebrities, right? And I think you're experiencing that as you go around. Just this, you know, you have this fandom that is, you know, like people really appreciated the mission as so large and so widespread. You know, I wonder how that felt. Maybe in the in the immediate days after the mission.

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, at that point, you are sort of very much in this sense of gratitude for for the opportunity of what we experienced out there, and then having survived and being back with your family-that that's what I felt most. I didn't feel a weight. I felt, you know, just really happy to be home.

There's a lot. You're also really busy when you get back. You know, with all of the data collection, the science, and so there's not a lot of space to think about it. And it was this- from when I look back at it, it was a slow realization of how much of the world paid attention to the mission. Just a lot more than than I would have expected, and but also gratitude for that too.

I found it really fascinating to watch how people didn't just watch the mission; people created with the mission. That's that's really special. I mean, I just my humans chose to be like, "Hey, let's spread this moon joy, and they just started spreading it in their own way. Everyone had their own ways of doing it, and that's remarkable. That's the that's the big success of the mission. You know, we flew around the world, but the big success is that people on the planet decided to tune in, decided to share with other people. They created a conversation about it, and the conversation was, "Hey, look at this positive thing, and we can do these positive things together, and we can collaborate. And you know, why do we have war?" They they just used it to to put a fine tip point on we should collaborate as a human species.

Gary Jordan

It's got to be an interesting thing to witness from hearing that from folks that maybe their outlook on life or perspective changed just from observing the mission. I wonder how your perspective changed from the from before the mission to after, is there anything that maybe you look on just a little bit differently?

Jeremy Hansen

It's yes and no. I'm very clear on, I didn't learn anything new in space. I I launched with this concept of of desire for global collaboration of creating together versus destroying. I just think it's an absolute waste of energy. Even as a as a as a military officer, you know, somebody who's willing to go to war, that doesn't mean I think that that's the right thing. I look at it as a deterrence point of view, and eventually, hopefully, we just don't need that anymore.

But- so I already went to space with that perspective, that you know the the purpose of of of life is is love and and joy, and we should just be lifting one another up. But to see what I saw, yeah, there's a different level of conviction, and I am… just, I don't have any patience for anyone who doesn't doesn't want to create that better future for ourselves. I just I just feel like you're missing the point. If you think there's somebody we can't work with on this planet, eh, you're wrong.

Gary Jordan

That's a wonderful perspective. The positivity from the start, and it just seemed to grow, maybe in yourself and in others as well. I kind of want to wrap up by talking about you know we. I think you recently announced your impending retirement. We got just a little bit more time with you, and I'm happy to be sitting down with you now in these last few weeks. I want to say congratulations first of all. I know here at NASA and in general, you know, I think you made quite an impression, particularly among the astronaut corps. I think you were the class leader of The Turtles in 2017. I'm sure they have a certain connection with you, and yeah, and maybe you with them as well. It's it's certainly bittersweet. I wanted to you know first at least congratulate you, but then just ask what's next for Jeremy Hansen.

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, the language around the paperwork, I guess, is is what carries is this word retirement. But it's a retirement from regular force duty, and then I'm I'm transitioning to a reservist, which really for me, it's it doesn't it's not going to look anything like retirement.

Gary Jordan

You're going to be busier!

Jeremy Hansen

It's the opposite of retirement. It's really to open the aperture on ensuring that I can go after the biggest priority aspects for our joint space program, our international space program. I have it's been an extraordinary career for me here, and I have so many insights into the international collaboration, how Canada can contribute to the objectives. I just feel like this administration is doing an extraordinary job of setting goals, what they're what they're trying to do with respect to the pace and getting back to the surface of the Moon, and just bringing everybody together, and get everybody like firing on all cylinders. Like, let's get the best of everyone. That's what this is about is: how do you get all of these people and all of these companies to literally be doing their best. Get that communication flowing, and you know, turn the switch the narrative from like you know how much money can a company make to like? Hey, let's get this done. That's you know what was always inspiring about Apollo. I think we're doing well right now, but I do think there's potential to do more. And so the reason I'm making the shift and I'm moving back to Canada is not to retire, but it's to make sure there's more of this in the future. And I see a lot of opportunity, and with this sort of model that I'll have, I can still, you know you might still see me here if that's what makes sense from time to time. And I can help decision makers, policymakers in Canada. That's what I want to do, so that'll be a major focus for me.

And I'll still I'm still going to share the mission. I think it's important to do what you and I are doing right now: is to continue to talk about it and continue to remind ourselves that we can do positive things. We can do these amazing things. So I'll still do that, but all of my energy outside of that will be focused on making sure that Canada is bringing as much to this positive endeavor as as possible.

Gary Jordan

What better pursuit than advocacy for continuing what you guys you know? I know it's not necessarily a start, but in a sense, it is. And you talked about pace. You talked about what's next, right? And I think there's this excitement. Let's let's keep going. And you, as an advocate, I think is going to be very powerful. It's certainly appreciated.

I'll end with this. If the you know just kind of leaning on that, I know it's not quite a retirement, but you're moving on to something else, and I'm sure, like you said, we'll see you around, right? But is there any is there any advice or anything that you are leaving with your colleagues before this transition?

Jeremy Hansen

Not advice. I I don't think any of my colleagues need my advice. But you know what I maybe from my own personal perspective, what I'm reminding myself is you know my my job in life is is joy, and not everything in life is is easy and joyful. But the the goal is joy and helping others have joy, and to get there, I just need to get up every day and use my energy for good. And make sure that I'm looking at and I'm open to and looking at the opportunity space where I can move the needle or add a drop of water in the bucket that moves us towards a more collaborative future. And for me, that is such a rewarding place to be.

And so maybe lastly is just a reminder to look around and and and have gratitude, you know, for for those that are doing that in their lives. And that's you know everybody that I work with here, they are doing that every single day. Their contributions are adding positively to society and setting an example, and that's that's a beautiful place to be in your life. And, and I hope everybody can find that a way to contribute positively.

Gary Jordan

I can't think of a better way to to wrap up this conversation. Jeremy, it's been a pleasure to to get to work with you just a few times in these past few years, and even at the beginning of my career, I remember working with you and just your your humble approach and your your collaborative approach and your pursuit of doing things better and and being an advocate is it's inspiring. So thank you for for this conversation and just wishing you the best and whatever's next to come.

Jeremy Hansen

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it.

Gary Jordan

Victor Glover! It is so good to see you. Thank you for coming back on Houston We Have a Podcast.

Victor Glover

Yeah, it's good to be back.

Gary Jordan

Yeah. All right. So I'm looking at the date, August 6. Four months ago, at this very moment, it's 10:01. Your wake up call had just come in ten minutes ago from this moment to begin flight day six and prepare for the lunar flyby of the Artemis mission. This is where this is the exact moment you were four, four months ago to this minute, and you have a lot behind you.

It's going to be hard to capture in just a just a broad view, just all of the experience since that moment four months ago. But to the greatest extent you can, just kind of reliving and thinking about these past four months, everything you've gone through in space on the ground. How would you characterize it?

Victor Glover

Yeah, that's big. It is, and and I would say first that it's still going. So you know, four months from now, I will have a different answer, and I maybe that's the most important thing, though, is that it's just it's it definitely has shifted something. Something is moved or is moving… and you know that day. And in fact, you talk about is it was a very special part of this. Just really getting up the courage. Can't tell you how nerve wracking it was to to be the the the eyes in the field for this science team, you know, knowing how much was riding on this, and so there was you know emotionally, scientifically, technically, operationally, but also just as a human being, it was it was a lot.

And so I mean it's been a lot to unpack, and to be honest, I haven't had a lot of time to like sit with it and unpack, and that's something that's super important to me. You know, I I have my definite male American tendency of like problem-solution, you know, question-answer. But it's important sometimes to just sit with the thing, and I haven't actually had a lot of time to do that. After the first two weeks, we've been ripping and running pretty hard, and and that's important.

That's not a complaint either. We've been ripping and running because the public and our teammates who made this possible, our international partners, our industry partners, they have been celebrating this, and we need to celebrate those wins because also, what's the reward for crushing Artemis Two, Artemis Three, Artemis Four, you know, and other missions? And so it's it's it's important for us to celebrate and congratulate and and to just be happy, and so I I I I intend to spend some more time and and and continue to marinate on it, but it definitely has changed a lot in my life, and I'm still figuring it out.

Gary Jordan

Yeah, and it's it's you know I'm gonna pull it maybe some strings just to get maybe nuggets, but to really bask in it, I understand you're probably going to need to take some time. So we'll mark you down for four months from now…

Victor Glover

Deal.

Gary Jordan

So let's let's go back to this moment because I saw I saw you kind of thinking back and and trying to relive that experience, waking up and knowing what was ahead of you. And what you how you characterize you know four months ago from this moment was this idea of you know everything you had prepared for and what was to come. You said technically, you said emotionally, you said scientifically, right? Making sure you were characterizing the the verbal scientific value because your words were so critical to the science community, and I'll tell you, the public was captivated on every single thing that you guys said.

And what's what's cool about it is we got to be a part of that experience, but give us a little insight into, from your perspective, that moment, that experience. We were, we were listening to it and and seeing it from a certain lens, but tell us about the lens you were you were preparing for, the feelings you were feeling that morning, ready to take on this moment. It was gonna pass by. There was no pause and rewind. Right, you had a job to do.

Victor Glover

You know, we we had a conference to talk through how we were going to do things, but even though we had trained and the simulations were were very good, this was the first time that we were in weightlessness, managing the power cables and the food and the you know when are you going to have a snack? I mean, and when are you going to drink water? And so, how do you get the camera in front of the window, protect the camera, protect the window, protect the the the the window that your crewmate's going to look through right after you. So you don't want the thing all smudged up. It it was the first time we were doing it for real, and so there's also that you know. And being, I think, a professional risk taker, being a professional, you know, do a thing for the first time, you know, from my previous life, being a test pilot, like you just- there's a certain amount of education that you can have before a thing, but also completely honoring the fact that until you've done the thing, you haven't done the thing. You can read every book on camping, but if you have never slept under the stars, you don't, you almost don't know a thing, and I think that that mindset was really in play there. We were we were doing our best, but we were also honoring the fact that in that moment, the the line between doing a great job and not doing a great job is is is pretty permeable.

And so, I mean, I think everybody was super focused and super like I I don't know. I can't tell you what everybody's emotions- Mine were all the things. I was anxious, excited, and then, and then the piece you can never train for. Even in the simulation, the graphics were kind of cool to see. When you look out the window and see our Moon that you know up close, and it doesn't look familiar, but it's awesome because you can see detail. I mean, it's just-I don't have a word for it.

Gary Jordan

Doesn't matter all the science training in the world to give you words to describe it. You can't.

Victor Glover

You can't. And but but we owed that to people, so you have to start. And and I'll tell you that was a huge thing for me. In the training- you can interview the science training team about this too- I actually, I think I maybe came up with the concept of the science sit rep, and I'll tell you the secret is it sounds like a cool thing. It was really my attempt to just get the words going. I was like, I can't just jump in the window and start talking about you know cratering and impact flashes and the science and the and the and the the geology. I needed to just start talking to get the warm up going. And so I would, I was very intentional about talking to my crewmates. Like I was paired up with Christina for a lot of the observations, and so getting the getting a conversation going with her was a big part of helping me get my my words going. And so the science sit rep of like, hey, here's where everybody is. This is who's in the window. This is what camera they have. The lighting is this. The you know giving them kind of the paint the picture of what's happening in the capsule is actually what helped me paint the picture of what was happening on the surface of the Moon and through the window. And so that to me was a really neat compromise. But it's cool that the science team found it meaningful because I was just like, hey guys, I just need this to kind of get going.

And so I think once we all started, though, it just you know every you were able to to to wrangle all the feelings, the the wonder and awe of seeing this, you know, up close. Knowing that we're only going to be there for six hours or so, we're only close to the moon for five plus hours, and and then we're zipping on back to Earth, really. And so like there was a lot, you know, I mean, your anticipation-you miss it. I mean, it all came very close together.

And and really, like we trained for three years for that. And that five hours, while it was not the whole mission, you know, rendezvous and prox ops was important, and cabin configuration was important, and the suit testing was important. Like that is a big part of the mission. That like now it's done. You worked a long time to get here, and now it's here.

Gary Jordan

Did you have that feeling after it passed by, or maybe a little bit later? Because as you as you mentioned, it was now that's done. On to the next thing.

Victor Glover

The mission was so packed with just like mind blowing moments that it was hard to to focus on anything in the past, you know. But then and then entry, you know, you you shut you set up for entry, and like I, that's it. My body, my mind, my body was focused on entry, but then after coming back to Earth and thinking about it, that was one of the things that that just really stuck out, is like, "wow, it's crazy to look up and see the moon far away again. I got used to seeing it bigger."

And and I and it's yeah, it's a little strange to say it, but just like I, one of the coolest things about going to space, I wish everybody could go to space so that you could miss the Earth. I think everybody should feel that and miss lots of other people. You know, when you're stuck in a cabin with only three other humans or only six other humans, like I was on ISS, it's cool to miss community, to miss my church, to miss my kid's school and the other parents. But now I I get to miss the Moon, and that's cool. That's cool.

Gary Jordan

Not a lot of people can say that. Not a lot of people can say that. I can say people can relate to missing, you know, missing Earth. Maybe in a sense of the community, right? You mentioned that.

But but talking about missing people, it's something that maybe a lot of us can relate to. You go on a trip, you know, and you're and you're going on this great adventure, but man, does it feel good to come home and be with your family and be back in the community. You can have that sense of appreciation for it. Is it similar to those experiences that you've had in the past? You've been, you know, you're a military pilot, gone on training a lot. You're and especially as an astronaut training all over the world, you have that sense of coming home and being back with your community was this different?

Victor Glover

I mean, of course, it's different. You know, in a lot of ways, it's different because I'm different. I'm older. My kids are in a different phase of life. My children are all adults now, so it is different. I would say mainly because of the differences in me. And yes, contextually, there are some differences, but there, at its core, that experience of leaving and coming home is the same. And and and the other thing I would say is not just for my family or me, but I think across this kind of wonderful journey that a few humans have been able to take- I got this idea reading Carrying the Fire by Michael Collins. It is the best. It's one of the best books I've ever written, and he wrote it himself. I mean, it's not a ghostwriter. This is an astronaut, and he wrote it somewhere about three years after Apollo 11.

This is the loneliest man in the universe, right? The the guy who stayed in the capsule while you know Neil and Buzz went to the surface, and in Carrying the Fire, he quotes a T.S. Eliot poem that I have found. It stuck with me when when I read it about his experience, but it's also proven true to me. At the beginning of this poem, it says:

"We shall not cease from exploration. At the end of our exploring, we will return home and see it as for the first time."

And I think that that that's one of the powers of travel. Whether it's going on your first field trip in school or traveling internationally, you know this this idea of it's great to go see a new place, but also the the more you get out and get away, it also is gives you a new ability to appreciate where you left and and what you come back to, and who you come back to. And I think that while it was true for the Apollo astronauts, it continues to be true for Artemis astronauts as well. I think we all feel a new connection to to what it means to be home.

Gary Jordan

Yeah, and I'm sure, yeah, that connection going that way is something probably you have to really sit with and really appreciate. But I'm sure you felt it right when you got home. Going the other way, though, you said now now I get to miss the Moon.

But going back to missing your crew, and I know you guys are doing a lot together. I feel like you would absolutely miss that in a sense. Being together, going through the mission, executing the the thing that you have been training with as a crew forever, and and the camaraderie. How you guys have explained it is, you did everything together. You did it as one team. There wasn't really a private space. Wasn't really like a a bedroom that you can go and just have some alone time. You did everything together, and that's something and an experience that you guys all share. Is that something you think? I mean, of of course, I think you'll miss it. But how would you characterize maybe maybe reflecting on it?

Victor Glover

I I have been using a word that I don't I don't know if everybody appreciates this word. I mean, like NASA large, maybe even the public. I don't know, but I think it just applies in a way that it it's the word I'm going to keep using. So on ISS, we talk a lot about privacy. You know, there's there's this desire to protect astronaut privacy. And so on this mission, you know, being the first flight of this vehicle and and having a lot of ISS experience, privacy came up quite a bit. But what I actually think was more important was to to to consider intimacy. We actually were so wound up in each other's experience, that everything anyone did affected everybody else, and yeah, our bathroom had a door. That's that's great. You do have this moment of privacy, kind of this passing thing that you do that's unique. But everything else was was a group effort. And just getting comfortable with that idea. That's the nature of the flight. You can call it what you want. You can use a different word, but you're still going to have somebody's leg here, somebody's foot, somebody's back, somebody's head right there. And then when you exercise, you know, you blow the whole thing up. And so, and and unlike ISS, I could I could be a morning person and wake up early, not bother anybody. We all had to go to sleep, and we all had to wake up at the same time. And so that's it's it's just a very different experience. And that it's an interesting way to live, and it's interesting to have some time between that and now, and and there is a part of that that I miss. But I also I like sleeping in my bed and being able to roll over and being able to stay in the bed when my wife gets up to feed the dog or to get up and feed the dog and my wife stays in the bed. And so again it like it's like leaving home and appreciating yeah the journey, but also appreciating home in a new way. Living that way helps you to appreciate the other ways that we live and the comforts and the and the conveniences, you know.

But this group of folks, every time we get back together, Reid, Christina, Jeremy, and I, it's just nice to be back together. We actually aren't together as much, especially as a foursome, as we as we have been. And what I will tell you, what I really miss, really miss, is all six of us being together. Jenni and Andre, our backups, that came to the most abrupt end, you know, because we launched, they stayed on Earth, we talked to Jenni on on the loops as a Capcom, but then it's been, you know, now Andre is assigned. But it's been a long time since all six of us were together. We still have a text string. I love being on, but it's it that I I can't wait for us to be all in the same space.

Gary Jordan

That might be something that maybe is lost on a lot of on a lot of folks. That it's it's you know we the public and a lot of people see you as a foursome, but really there's there's this extension. And it sounds like it's not something that you know you just sort of cut off and now you become a foursome. No, that's that sixsome seems to still be be a unit, be something that you got. Yeah, you say you have this texturing going on, and that that man, whether you flew or not, there's still a family element to it.

Victor Glover

Very much. Very much so.

Gary Jordan

Maybe there's something that you can thinking about. I'm really sitting in this in this reflective moment with you, just really thinking back on the mission. I wonder as you're thinking about it if you're if there's something that you can maybe characterize as a success in the mission that maybe maybe is not something that is apparent to to people or to the public. Whether it is the camaraderie, whether it is maybe something technical or scientific, but maybe something that is not commonly known or appreciated.

Victor Glover

Wow, how much time do we have? I, so you know the fact that we decided to integrate the heat shield onto this capsule. That was one of the early tough decisions, and if you had an algorithm that just made this decision, a computer program, it probably would have said no, because we don't have a way to take it off if we, you know, continue to investigate the Artemis I heat shield and find out that the Artemis II heat shield cannot complete this mission. We didn't have a way to take it off, so we put it on, and then as the team found the scientific and engineering basis for the problems with Artemis I, we found solutions to implement to protect Artemis II, and it worked.

But it was a gutsy call to put the heat shield on the vehicle because it happened years ago, and so, but if that hadn't happened, we wouldn't have had a chance to try to roll the vehicle out to the pad in as early as we did to try to launch in February, and then to try again in March. But all of those things directly led to us launching 11 minutes into the window on the first day of the launch window in April.

And so I, I mean, all of those things, when you go back, the public is not going to follow it that closely. The average person, but that is a that is a an amazing string of events.

The scientific contributions. I could just talk about that for a long time. But you you can talk to the science team about that, and they'll say it more eloquently and more technically. The the the the rendezvous and proximity operations demo, I know people were able to get that real time. That to me, if we launched, did that, and then had to deorbit right after that, I would have considered it a complete mission success. And I know I just led into that by talking about the Moon, the lunar science. And while the Moon was really important, and and maybe what brought people to you know NASA+ and to you know our internet station and NASA TV. That's not what people talk about. It's the whole thing, and this mission opened the door for the next mission, and that's one of the capabilities that the next mission needed.

And so, the thing I think is the biggest success, though, is how the public reacted to this. You know, we we really hoped that that that this would move people and that they would come along with us. You know, we wanted people to be on this journey with us, and we prepared for that. And you can see it in the record. I mean, we we were studying poetry and religion and you know ancient cultures, reflections on the Moon, and how to speak about the Moon scientifically, but also how to speak about it in a creative way that connects to people beyond the science community, and so we were we were working really hard to to meet this moment and to rise to the occasion, while knowing that it may not people may see it and go, oh, that's great launch, and then not care again until entry. Which is kind of how it feels like space is for a lot of people.

We have the International Space Station up there, 24/7, 365, and there's always amazing things going on, but that same level of captivation is not happening on the space station, and I don't understand why. So public: when you hear this, go check out what's happening on the space station! People, everybody that I know knows we were there, we were in space on this mission for Easter, and they talk about the things that I said for Easter, but I don't hear many people talk about Jessica and Sophie being on ISS for Mother's Day, and they both have children. And so I know it's not a one for one comparison, but it just there's amazingness out there, and that's maybe the biggest thing is that amazingness is out there. The solar eclipse we saw from the moon would have happened whether we were there or not. There's amazingness out there. You might just have to look, and it happens on the space station.

Gary Jordan

Right now, I'm wishing that this podcast was live because we could tell people go to NASA+, and there are two people in space right now in spacesuits working on the International Space Station. Stuff is happening every day right at this very moment. There's something very, very special happening.

Victor Glover

Even when they have a day off, think about think about what that means. I mean, sit with that to have a day off on the space station-that's one of the most uncanny things. The fact that we live there-if you didn't live there, if you were visiting, you wouldn't be able to take days off. You'd be grinding. The fact that we have people living in low Earth orbit that can have a weekend off-it's kind of amazing!

And yeah, Jessica and Anil are outside right now. I mean, we do amazing things, and I hope this mission helps to shine light on all of those things, on all of that, because what we did is not purely unique. It's not as unique as people act like it is when we show up.

Gary Jordan

And I feel like that's that's a part of your message as you travel around. You've had the experience. You know, we're talking about your flight a lot, but sitting four months afterwards, you've traveled a lot and and been able to speak about this mission in a lot of different ways to a lot of different people that have different perspectives and and and connections to it. Whether it be the employees at different centers, whether it be suppliers. I think you were just you were just in Denver, I think not too long ago. I had some friends out there that they were doing cell phone videos, and it was this huge. Like, were you guys at Red Rocks or something? Oh man, gosh, that was awesome!

Victor Glover

It was awesome. It was.

Gary Jordan

That's more than a supplier visit. That's really really cool. People have this intense connection to it, and I'm sure you're you're you're seeing it, and maybe maybe you're getting a sense of you know you're trying to stress the importance of yes, our mission, but then everything, right? So maybe I wonder if you're getting that sense that there is this reinvigoration of interest and passion and and the desire for contribution to human spaceflight and pushing where we need to push exactly what your mission was where you were talking about your mission did getting to Artemis III getting to Artemis IV I'm hoping you're sensing that reinvigoration.

Victor Glover

I do, I very much see it awesome and and and I mean I see it in the workforce. I see it in the public. What's really cool, I see it in the astronaut corps, in current and former's. That also is is shocking. Sounds a little bit too negative, but it's a pleasant surprise. I get you know the number of former astronauts and former NASA employees that I that I see that are you know reinvigorated about things, it it just it's amazing. I am I am seeing that, and that's that's maybe the best part of post flight. A lot of people show up because they want to see us. We show up, and they are there to see us. But really, what we see in them is in hearing their stories is what's what's been the best part of post flight.

Gary Jordan

Kind of makes you think about your heat shield example that you know, like a you know, in terms of appreciating the mission or maybe a success that maybe people don't think about- the success you identified is something that was worked on years, years before, and there were people, there were decision makers that made a moment years before that led to a very specific moment. And I think it's you know like you guys are the face of the mission, of course, right? You go around, and of course, there's a reason that you are going around. But just to just to know that there were so many contributors across the whole country. Internationally! You guys went to three different countries in in Europe, and you got to look upon the faces of folks that contributed to your mission. It's a it's a very very special thing and something that maybe is underappreciated- Just how many people it takes to make that possible.

And you even are saying you really haven't had a moment to bask in the success, and I think a lot of folks are feeling the same way because we're all excited about doing the next thing, you know, we're actively preparing for Artemis III, Artemis IV. What can we do? What do we need to get ready? How do we improve? You know, we a lot of people are reinvigorated by this and want to contribute.

Victor Glover

And that's important. I'm glad you said that because I try to put this message out. Think about what- it's easy. The four of us show up, and people want to like heap praise onto us. We are trying to reflect it right back to them because all of us did something different. This mission was not made magical by us four. It wasn't made magical by the Moon. It wasn't magic because of Orion or the Space Launch System rocket or the ground systems that supported it all. There were some decisions that we made. It's the way that the NASA PAO team worked. It's the way that that that social media content creators… Like, all of us did some things differently, and I think we need to really meditate on that. Like we need to think about what we did, and like you said, we can improve. But also, again, that's kind of our social, our current. Like you know, this is what we do is to improve. Yeah, but come back, come back to what we did, and truly understand what we did first, wanting to improve, might you might miss what we did because something we did was different, but it was right.

What we did with Artemis is different than what we've done for ISS, and if we think about that, one immediate benefit might be we could do something different for ISS, and then we can make sure that we're intentionally going to continue to do that for Artemis III and Artemis IV, and then we improve on top of that. So I just don't want us to run past what we did, right? Because all of us did something different. Not the crew; we were one small part of it.

But I said that the first person I said this to was Anderson Cooper. We he interviewed us live on set, and then I walked out and I said, "Hey, you know, there's a saying in the media: "If it bleeds, it leads." But that wasn't true in this case. It was love leading, and I was like, "We all got to think about that. There's a there's a different narrative that people are hungry for, and we need to feed that as well."

Gary Jordan

That's I think what's really special about the messages that we're sharing, and and what you get to really experience. There's a lot of different experiences and perspectives we talk about, I want to focus just for just briefly on family. This is something that you've stressed really, really before as a uniquely important contributor to the success of human spaceflight. Can you elaborate on your family before, during, after the mission, and how they also strongly enabled the success of the mission?

Victor Glover

Oh, 100%. Getting ready for my first mission, it was clear to me that NASA was going to do the stuff to get me ready for, for flying in space, for flying a Dragon. SpaceX was going to get me ready for flying the Dragon, living on the space station. But I, I was, it was also clear that I needed to get my family ready. And I didn't know what that- There was no checklist, and so I, I, my wife and I sat down with the kids. My kids were much younger, high school and junior high, and we just talked about what we were going to try to do, and and and and made sure that we executed. I mean, so we, it was a lot of listening, learning. Hey, how how are you feeling? The nerves. My kids were younger, so we didn't really talk a lot about the estate planning and the will and what you know how life is if things go wrong, but that but all of that was there. and then they had some fantastic support. Our family support is amazing. It's one of my favorite parts of being an astronaut. Even more than flying in space, I love supporting another family when their loved ones launch into space. And we had fantastic support. Drew Morgan was our launch escort. This time it was Mike Barrett for Artemis II launch, and same thing.

This time, the only difference now, my kids are older, and so I decided to have the talk with them about you know the will and the and the things that you know this this is a very dangerous business, and and this is dangerous in a whole nother way. And everybody's going to be watching, and so if something goes wrong, you're not going to be able to avoid it. It's going to be you know kind of played over and over again, and and so I just want you to be ready in case. And that was a very hard thing to do, but at the end of it, I think they were all appreciative. And I know it was kind of a not fun conversation. And so I sent them this poem. There's this Chief Tecumseh, I think is how you say it. But he there's this poem about like how to live the life of an elder warrior, faithful person, and how to walk that, and I it just it's, it's such a powerful statement, and I was like, guys, this is this is what I'm talking about. And so when you read that, it's it it it really can kind of reframe a tough discussion about having a career that's risky.

But my kids may not remember because my the first time I went on a Navy deployment, my oldest daughter was was two. And so I flew in combat and they don't remember that, but so for my wife and I, this was a continuation of that long career. But my family was not only important; it was the key. Like this was the if my kids had said, "Dad, don't do this," I would have had a very tough conversation with NASA. Like, "hey, you're gonna have to find another pilot." So we so we had that conversation continually, so that no one was surprised. And then coming home, the mission was truly complete when I got back to my family, and my college kids even flew home after going out of school three times to go into quarantine. They flew home to be here when I got home, and I was like literally over the Moon and figuratively over the Moon. I was so happy that they were all here.

Gary Jordan

Such a critical, critical element. Victor Glover has been such a pleasure to to speak with you. I'm just hope I'm wishing you all the best, and and I'm so excited to to have this moment to speak with you before you move on to whatever's next in your adventures. Wishing you all the best, and thank you for all you've done to to really be a champion of NASA and the mission and continuing human spaceflight. You know we've been talking poetry and reflecting on Michael Collins, who we know is a very big fan of poetry, and really capturing the words. I feel like you did it more than justice. It's always a pleasure talking with you and getting that perspective. Thank you so much.

Victor Glover

Happy to talk to you, and I look forward to seeing you four months.

Gary Jordan

Hey, thanks for sticking around. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.

Our full collection of episodes and all the other wonderful NASA podcasts can be found at nasa.gov/podcasts. And if you'd like to learn more about Artemis, go to nasa.gov/artemis.

On social media we're on the NASA Johnson Space Center pages of Facebook, X, and Instagram. If you have any questions for us or suggestions for future episodes, email us at [email protected].

The interviews with Jeremy and Victor were recorded in July and August 2026, respectively.

Our producer is Dane Turner. Audio engineers are Will Flato and Daniel Tohill. Our social media is managed by Leah Cheshier and Kelcie Howren. Houston We Have a Podcast was created and is supervised by me, Gary Jordan. Special thanks to Brandi Dean and Shaneequa Vereen for helping us plan and set up these interviews, and of course, thanks again to Victor Glover and Jeremy Hansen for taking the time to come on the show.

Give us a rating and feedback on whatever platform you're listening to us on, and tell us what you think of our podcast.

We'll be back next week.

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