In Transit: Five Key Questions with Robin Gisby, CEO, Department for Transport Operator

As CEO of the Department for Transport Operator (DFTO), Robin oversees six UK train operators, leading a group of around 23,000 employees with significant public and stakeholder interfaces. With a career spanning Network Rail, major infrastructure boards, and the energy logistics sector, Robin reflects on the most transformative changes he's witnessed, the challenges of delivering sustainability at scale, how AI is reshaping the business, and what he believes will most define transport by 2030.

Looking back, what's been the most transformative change in the sector and how has it shaped operations today?

Digitalisation has fundamentally reshaped the sector. The speed at which decisions can be made, the volume of information available, and the expectations of passengers have all been transformed. Customers no longer compare rail with other rail operators; they benchmark us against the best apps and services they use in everyday life. They expect ticketing to be seamless, real-time updates to be instant, and service recovery to feel as simple as checking their phone.

That shift in expectation is enormous. When I started my career, communication could take weeks, financial reports faxed across borders, letters sent by courier. Today, passengers know almost everything, instantly and they expect operators to know more than they do. That immediacy has been both liberating and demanding.

The other great change has been the renewed urgency around sustainability. Rail has always been a greener option, but in the last few years, driven by geopolitics, climate change and resilience concerns, the focus on sustainability has been sharpened. Interestingly, none of this is new: when I worked in the automotive industry in the late 1970s, we already had battery buses in Manchester. Yet here we are, 45 years later, returning to the same conversation. The long-run decline of fossil fuels is real, and rail must be prepared.

Finally, urbanisation and the growth of conurbations has put intermodality centre stage. Rail has resurged because it offers capacity, connectivity, and reliability. The challenge is integrating modes seamlessly so that the journey, not the operator, defines the passenger experience.

What's the biggest sustainability challenge in your area of the sector, and how is your organisation responding?

We are preparing for a generation that views transport completely differently. For them, mobility is a utility, not a status symbol. The old aspiration of saving up to buy a car and polishing it on a Sunday has been replaced by convenience, flexibility, and shared use. Young people are entirely comfortable with public transport, car pools, Uber, or e-bikes.

Our challenge is to make those systems work as seamlessly as possible. Transport for London's Oyster and contactless systems show what's possible, you tap in, tap out, and the rest just works. But nationally, the picture is fragmented and the simplicity passengers expect isn't there yet.

Rail has historically been insular, wedded to magstripe tickets, vending machines, and paper-based processes. Compared to other sectors, when I go to a cricket match, my ticket is emailed, downloaded, and scanned in seconds. Yet on the railway, too often the default assumption is that the passenger hasn't complied, and the process is geared around proving they 'have'. That must change.

Simplifying fares, making intermodal travel intuitive and ensuring digital experiences are embedded across the system are essential if rail is to match expectations and grow its role in sustainable mobility.

How do you balance commercial performance with the long-term imperative to become a more sustainable business, and where do you feel the biggest trade-offs or opportunities lie?

I am convinced that customers will not pay a premium just to be green. Subsidies and incentive mechanisms may bridge gaps in the short term, but in the long term, the economics must stand up on their own. Public transport has goodwill behind it, but it must also deliver efficiency.

Electrification is vital, but being electric isn't enough, we must also be efficient in how we use energy. Rail is the country's single largest electricity consumer, accounting for around 2% of national demand, yet significant transmission losses and inefficient usage persist. Simply being "not diesel" doesn't absolve us of scrutiny.

Capital markets are already signalling where things are headed. Raising money for fossil-based infrastructure is increasingly difficult, while hydrogen, carbon capture, and storage technologies are attracting investors. That capital shift will drive behaviour change. Leaders, however, have to accelerate it by setting bold constraints. For example, I have told operators we will not buy another diesel train. To some, that sounds unreasonable, but unless you make those assumptions, procurement and planning default to what's comfortable. Given trains last 35-40 years, failing to take that stance now would leave us stranded in 2060.

The trade-off is timing. Hydrogen, batteries, and alternative fuels all have limitations. Hydrogen trains, for example, eat into carriage space and require storage and distribution systems that are not yet practical. But if you wait for the "perfect" solution, you will never move forward. So you must take bold decisions, even when the pathway is still emerging.

Where is AI already making an impact, and what excites or concerns you most about what's coming next?

AI casts both a shadow and a light. The shadow is felt by employees in back-office roles, who wonder if their jobs will exist in five years. The light is in the very real opportunities it provides, both in cost savings and enhanced capability.

At DFTO, we already use AI in fraud detection. With digital ticketing, bad actors look for weaknesses, and we have to defend against multi-million-pound risks. AI helps spot patterns and behaviours faster than humans ever could. We're also deploying it in anomaly detection, using drones and imagery to flag changes in assets, from shifted ballast to trackside intrusions. It augments human observation and extends the reach of teams.

Looking ahead, AI could radically simplify fares and pricing. Today, we have millions of fare options; customers use split-ticketing websites that undercut yields while undermining confidence. Imagine reducing that to a few hundred, using AI to personalise offers, cap weekly spend automatically, and design "personal zones" around passengers' actual travel patterns. That would transform both fairness and simplicity.

The risk is hype. I see many AI investment pitches in other sectors that are little more than snake oil. Unless there is a real asset or demonstrable IP, it's easy to be dazzled but left with nothing. Responsible adoption, grounded in real operational need, is what will matter.

Looking ahead to 2030, what single shift will most define the future of transportation, and why?

If I had to pick one word it would be simplification. For passengers, that means fewer fares, easier choices, and clearer accountability. For operators, it means streamlining duplicated corporate functions, consolidating governance, and aligning incentives.

Great British Railways offers the opportunity to do this, but only if industrial relations are modernised at the same time. Without change, IR issues will continue to dominate management attention and stifle delivery. Strikes and disputes consume enormous energy that should be spent on customers and efficiency.

The other shift must be cultural. Leaders have to believe that the railway can be simple, efficient, and customer-focused, not weighed down by legacy practices. That belief, coupled with the courage to set bold constraints, will define whether we succeed.

By 2030, success will look like a coherent digital customer experience, trusted fare capping, fewer duplicated functions across operators, and industrial relations fit for the modern age. If we achieve that, rail will not just be greener and more resilient, it will be simpler, fairer, and more commercially robust.