At HELP Hearing, Murray Grills Trump Nominees on AI Denying Seniors’ Health Care & Abortion Bans Killing Women

***WATCH: Senator Murray's full questioning***

Washington, D.C. - Today-at a Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) hearing to consider Trump's latest slate of nominees for the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)-U.S. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA), a senior member and former chair of the HELP committee, grilled Trump's nominees on the harmful WISeR model that is denying seniors doctor recommended care and on how Republican abortion bans are putting women with ectopic pregnancies at life threatening risk.

[AI DENYING SENIORS' CRITICAL HEALTH CARE]

Senator Murray began by questioning Chris Klomp, nominee to be Deputy Secretary of HHS, on the WISeR model-which uses artificial intelligence to deny seniors' health care-and the private companies doing the prior authorization assessments profiting from the denials.

MURRAY: Mr. Klomp, I'll start with you and I want to start with the WISeR model, that as you know is a program CMS is using to implement AI prior authorization in Traditional Medicare in several states, including in my home state of Washington.

Do the contractors in the model-who are the private companies conducting the prior authorization assessments-make more money if they deny care? Just yes or no?

KLOMP: My understanding is no.

MURRAY: Well, the answer actually is yes. We already know these companies are paid based on the number of claims they deny.

And we also know that the CMS Office of the Actuary literally said in a memo, "model participants will have an incentive to deny as many claims as possible." And what do you know? In the first three months of this year, the Washington state contractor denied more requests than they approved.

So, Mr. Klomp, you've said prior authorization was one of the first things you wanted to focus on at HHS, saying it needs to be fixed so it's "invisible to the patient."

KLOMP: Yes ma'am.

MURRAY: I'm telling you, it is not invisible for the seniors in my state who've had to wait weeks in pain as their doctors battled with these contractors for approval. In fact, I just met with a large number of hospitals, rural hospitals in particular, from my state, and they said it has not gotten better.

So, will you commit today to revoking the WISeR model and allowing our Medicare beneficiaries in Washington state to receive the timely care that they need?

KLOMP: Senator, I'd like to, I want to comment on a couple of those points. First, you know that you and I very strongly agree about prior authorization being used appropriately and it has in fact largely not been used appropriately in this country. And that undermines trust between providers and patients. In fact, one of my family members who's here today recently went through a six-week prior authorization stall that was incredibly frustrating at a time of great uncertainty. That is the very thing that must be eliminated. At the same time, it is an appropriate utilization management tool if it is used precisely, and surgically, and appropriately. You asked me earlier if they were paid based on the volume. My understanding-and it is not my center that was responsible for developing the WISeR model, so I'm happy to bring more experts in, but-

MURRAY: Okay, but they do deny care. They're paid to deny care.

KLOMP: My understanding is when they deny care, and if they do so inappropriately, there are significant financial penalties and that CMMI is carefully watching their performance and has the ability to terminate. My understanding as well is that they will be producing a report or a report card, something shortly that will show an accounting by vendor in these trial markets-

MURRAY: Who is the "they"?

KLOMP: CMMI-to drive an accountability. You have my very strong commitment that if this program is not working, if it is not improving patient care, and prior authorization has an important point here, it's not just about cost control. It is about making sure, and WISeR is targeting elected procedures, that patients get the right care.

MURRAY: Well, let me just say, I only have a few minutes here. I already know CMS is planning to expand this to oncology. I am going to do everything I can to stop this. It is really hurting patients.

KLOMP: You and I are on common ground on this topic Senator Murray. It must be done appropriately, or it should not expand. And you have my commitment, that that will not change. I believe you have my cell phone as well. I'm happy to stay closely engaged with you on this.

MURRAY: Thank you.

[REPUBLICANS' ABORTION BANS KILLING WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY]

Senator Murray then questioned Nicole Saphier, nominee to be Surgeon General of the Public Health Services, about her commitment to help women get abortion care who are in life threatening situations and advocate against abortion bans that are rolling out across the country.

MURRAY: Dr. Saphier, I wanted to turn to you, in July of 2022, you claimed on Fox News that Democrats were spreading false information about what would happen to women experiencing ectopic pregnancies under abortion bans. You said, "I will be the first person, if any of the states stand up and say there will no longer be access to treatment, you will hear me. I will start advocating against that because that would be wrong."

Well, I have news for you: that is what is happening. CDC data shows that the number of women who died after an ectopic pregnancy has doubled in recent years, with women dying at even higher rates in states that have banned abortion.

So, it's clear, that these Republican abortion bans are killing women.

So, will you stick to your word? Will you advocate against abortion bans that are harming women?

SAPHIER: Thank you, Senator, for this question. Obviously as a woman, it is very personal to us. I have been in media for a very long time. It is my understanding that the FDA is currently undergoing a review on the safety of mifepristone, as there were some safeguards-

MURRAY: I'm not asking you about that. I'm asking you about ectopic pregnancies. I'll just tell you the facts. The United States has the highest rate of maternal mortality among wealthy nations, and these bans are killing women, permanently damaging their fertility, and traumatizing them. It just seems to me that this was never about protecting women, it was about controlling them. And I'm happy to share the data with you.

SAPHIER: I appreciate that, Senator. And I always welcome reading more data. I think the maternal mortality rate in the United States is something that we should be judged upon and if confirmed I desperately want to do work with other people at HHS to see what we can to ensure the lives of our mothers, because they deserve better than we are giving them right now.

MURRAY: For the record, from 2020 to 2025, [almost] 200 women experiencing ectopic pregnancies died, that is compared with 100 in the previous six years. So, this is something we all have to-I expect you to speak out about it.

SAPHIER: I diagnose ectopic pregnancies and I understand the severity and importance of them.

MURRAY: Okay, and I expect you to speak out too if you're confirmed. Thank you.

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