Prompt-asic Park: How 22 College Campuses Scaled GenAI Without Losing Control

Prompt-asic Park: How 22 College Campuses Scaled GenAI Without Losing Control

by InstructureCast

• Kennedy's path from linguistics to ed tech, by way of five years at WebCT
• Why portfolios stuck and micro-credentialing hasn't yet
• The equity problem that led the CSU to buy AI for everyone
• What the system-wide survey showed about student and faculty use
• The question the survey didn't capture: am I allowed to use this in this class?
• What faculty say they need, starting with assessment help
• Why administrators have a harder time admitting they're lost
• Kennedy on leaning in while the headlines call for tapping the brakes

• CSU AI Commons: https://genai.calstate.edu/
• Faculty AI Showcases: https://genai.calstate.edu/communities/faculty/csu-artificial-intelligence-educational-innovations-challenge-award-showcases?combine=literacy&combine_1=&field_campus_target_id=All
• CSU Systemwide AI Advisory Committee: https://genai.calstate.edu/about/systemwide-generative-ai-advisory-committee
• CSU AI Workforce Acceleration Board: https://genai.calstate.edu/about/workforce-acceleration-board

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• Prompt-asic Park: How 22 College Campuses Scaled GenAI Without Losing Control
  Welcome to Educast 3,000. It's the most transformative time in the history of education.
  
  So join us as we break down the fourth wall and reflect on what's happening. The good, the bad, and even the chaotic. Here's your hosts, Melissa Lobel and Ryan Lufkin.
  
  Hey there. Welcome to Educast 2,000. I'm your co host, Melissa Lobel.
  
  And I'm your co host, Ryan Lufkin. Today, Melissa and I are very excited to be joined by our guest, Doctor. Leslie Kennedy. Leslie is Assistant Vice Chancellor for Academic Technology Services at the California State University Office of the Chancellor, where she co leads the academic side of CSU's system wide generative AI initiative. Her team rolled out chatgpt.edu to all 22 CSU campuses in just eighteen months, launched the CSU AI Commons, and just released Ahead of the Curve, the largest survey on AI in higher education ever conducted. Leslie, welcome to the show.
  
  Hey. Thank you very much, Ryan and Melissa. It's great to be here.
  
  Of course. Well, Melissa and I have been friends with you for some time. We know all about But for our guests, would you share a little bit more about your background?
  
  You gave a pretty good synopsis there, but I do have an academic background. Oh, many years ago I was in high school but also tenured faculty in a college here in California.
  
  And, then worked a little bit in the LMS world as well for five years for WebCT and, worked in other areas and other programs really focusing on online learning and teaching and instructional design perspective. So did work at Long Beach State and ran their LMS and all their classrooms, technologies, etcetera.
  
  So, kind of a, all these, as I've tell students now, all these jobs that didn't even exist when I graduated from I that.
  
  Leslie, one of the things... And again, Ryan and I know you so well. But one of the things that's always interesting for us to ask our guests is like a favorite learning moment in your past. Whether it's you were teaching, you were a student, you witnessed other people learning or teaching, but sort of what's something that you remember as a favorite learning moment?
  
  Wow. There's so many. It's really more about having that. Maybe it's grace when you think you know so much and then the students bring more to the table in a lesson or in a situation, even in this environment, in my work environment currently, to be able to acknowledge that there is a lot more to learn and to then to adopt or adapt to those principles or whatever resources that have, I've been engaged with that I didn't know that existed. So yeah. So I would say learning moments can be across many different areas, but, and I'm very open to them. I very much, like to continue learning, and now that I'm in the, you know, towards the end of my career, but have had- but continue to be challenged and realize that there's so much more to learn.
  
  And your background's amazing. You've been doing this for a while. How do people get burned out on ed tech after a few cycles? Clearly, you have not. You keep doing amazing things. What keeps you passionate about doing this?
  
  Because I really am passionate about ed tech. That's why. That was probably one of my biggest light bulbs or learning moments maybe or transitions when I was, because my background is languages, undergrad, and, linguistics major, masters, you know, those things. And I did focus in that area. But when I was teaching my students, realized how they became more engaged when we used technologies.
  
  And you know learning is hard and our students come at night and they you know work full time and all these challenges that our students experience and technology seem to have encouraged them and also pull them into the instructional environment further than just the usual lecture and or the usual group work in a classroom. It made it more personalized. So that was another aspect of it as well. So I was at the forefront of all of that as the World Wide Web came on board.
  
  And then we've evolved through so many different technologies and I still believe in them and how they help to engage students and provide opportunities for learning as well. Because, you know, back in those days we were the beginning faculty teaching online and that was all new and we were focusing on various best practices and learning from one another. And now, you know, it's more mature and students have more opportunities and it's a different kind of student we call maybe more post traditional students. So how how are we serving them, using technologies is exciting as well.
  
  I love that.
  
  I do too. I think, gosh, you and I both have taught for a very long time. And like you said, you're one of the first.
  
  You've taught early using technology before many people did. Right? I started in 2000. The other thing I think is a hook too is... And you and I have talked about this. We've had a front row seat for all sorts of trends over the years.
  
  Everything from learning management systems, which seem to have stuck to practices and processes that sort of never hit it off. I'll give you an example portfolios. Right? We've watched portfolios come and go over the years.
  
  They're back in favor. But I'm curious. Okay. You've had this front row seat. You've been doing it for, you know, over twenty years.
  
  Any trends or any practices that stick out that really stuck? And then is there anything that you're like, oh, yeah. Nope. That didn't make it and I'm not surprised.
  
  Oh wow, there's so many, but I trends that have think it's more about folks realizing that they have to be flexible in their decisions.
  
  And so then to be more open to trends, to the new trends, and then realizing that whatever they tried also didn't work. So to move on kind of a, and to see what's best for their students from that perspective.
  
  Yeah, I mean portfolios I'm a big fan of by the way.
  
  Yeah.
  
  And I was really excited when the high impact practices folks added them to the list and, you know, been very involved and supported them in my instructional environment because I still teach at Long Beach State. But yeah, I think that the challenges around those kinds of activities and tools that really benefit students, I mean you can't not say that they are beneficial to the learner and to the faculty member as well. It's really about understanding just that it's a different way of reflecting and learning and capturing what one has learned in a digital environment. So, and some of the other tools that have been out there that have come and gone also are in that place.
  
  And it's really also about support for the faculty, understanding how to use it and, how it applies to their instructional environment. All these factors are a part of whether something makes it or doesn't make it. It doesn't mean they aren't good, or they weren't good tools or good strategies, but it's just more about how does that fit into the work, the instructional environment, like I said, for the instructor and or the student. So for example, when I teach I still do portfolios.
  
  We still create a portfolio. Awesome.
  
  Love that.
  
  And my students still use it to get jobs, right?
  
  It's... Yeah, how is that? Teacher ed, high level grad students and, so they're using it to get... When they're in their interviews. So those are some of the reasons why I think they're really valuable and also the reflective aspect of it too.
  
  And there are a lot of things that haven't taken off that need to, and I'm just kind of standing by and watching and waiting to see if they will connect such as micro credentialing. That's something that's really could be considered hot now, but also sometimes is a kind of just not quite there yet. Whether it's reflected in a transcript, which would be super valuable for the student or how it will impact, how the student understands it. It could impact their potential for job searching or searches or other aspects for the faculty to understand how that could enhance their instructional environment as well. So we're, we have some pilots running around those aspects that I just mentioned and, I'm hoping that some of that will also take off because I have benefited from my own. They weren't micro, you know, credentials, they're just credentials that I picked up along the way.
  
  And that's made a huge impact on my career. So... And my learning experiences. So I'm a big fan of those as well. But they're still in kind of their very infancy stages, at least in our system.
  
  Yeah. Well, Melissa knows that I'm big into history, and I love cycles in history. And, you know, given your background, you you know, you work...
  
  Spent time on the vendor side. Of course, we've turned over to the academic side and now the chancellor's office. You also just said, you know, like, we lived through the .com boom.
  
  Right? Now we're seeing kind of a generative AI boom. What is it that vendors get right or wrong about the, you know, the decision making process of education? I think it's so interesting to look back and see those cycles and learn from what we saw before.
  
  Yeah. And that's a great question because I reflect on it. Even this morning as I was brushing my teeth, was thinking about it. Just because it's always a question, what's been right or wrong?
  
  We don't know. I think we're still, as I tell students, because we, I speak in front of students quite a bit about AI and their challenges, etcetera. We're still in that beginning phase where we don't know what's right or wrong, what's being utilized correctly or not. We just know that AI exists and we're trying to learn how to use it responsibly and understand how it can support our instructional learning environment or not.
  
  And, also to be able to be know enough for the future for the, when our students graduate. So in general, we're very much, I believe, in early stages, early phases of AI, and we're trying to figure that out. So we've run some challenges, some grant projects in our system to help faculty explore some of that as well. We have some great showcases now on our AI Commons website for that under faculty if you look for that. Most of faculties in their findings will say we need to spend more time exploring further how AI is going to support our instructional environment, whether it's computer science to history instruction, to English writing, all of that. So still early stages, I would say.
  
  This is a good segue into what is the CSU's AI initiative? So so we shared a little bit when Ryan shared your background and some of the work that you've been doing. I have the pleasure of being able to work with you on this. But like, it's a public private activity that's been fueled by the governor's office and the system and the chancellor. Walk us through what is the CSU AI initiative?
  
  Well, it's many things, but the goals that were initially established by a system wide AI advisory committee, so, across the system with faculty, students and staff involved, was to provide equitable access to all of our half million students.
  
  And that doesn't even include our 56,000 staff and faculty. So that everybody got access to a privately protected, intellectual property protected environment, enterprise level, robust, and was not sharing to any, any kind of data to a large language model. And we saw a lot of our students that could afford it and a lot of our students who couldn't afford that. And we're sharing their private information in non private, potentially non private areas.
  
  So that's what led us to essentially purchase AI for the entire system. And then from there, it's really about learning AI literacy, digital literacies, AI literacy for many of our users as to what is this, how should we be using it responsibly and what can we do with it, etcetera, etcetera. And how do we prepare for our future workforce as well. So we've got several online trainings that we run through Canvas on our, on our central Canvas environment for the entire system.
  
  And we see lots of students, faculty and staff using those trainings whether they're facilitated or not, self paced.
  
  So that's really the basis of the CSU's AI initiative. And then from there, we also established an AI workforce board, which Melissa is a part of. And many of our partners that offer supply AI tools and or strategies around future work, etcetera, are part of this AI workforce acceleration board. And that is a great way for us to work closely with our partners to learn what the expectations are in the working world and then also for them to learn from us as to what our challenges are, etcetera. So that's been a great part of our initiative.
  
  And then we've got many campuses, you know, working on, for a while it was, you know, custom GPTs to see how that could maybe support tutoring or students who are making applications to their campus or advising, all these areas that are really critical to retention for our students. And so we've seen a lot of experimentation now that AI is moving more into agentic model. We're even seeing more powerful ways to use AI to support our students in various capacities. Still, you know, figuring it out and not 100% aligned on all of that.
  
  Yeah. Well, and you're far enough in, what's cool is you're far enough in to have real data around this, right? Plus I know you've got a lot of engagement points with students, with faculty members. What is the data showing you and kind of what are some of the trends you're seeing that maybe don't necessarily show even show up in the data?
  
  Well, we do have that. We did a- we ran a survey last fall.
  
  I'm trying to think this is fall. So we're just about ready to kick off our next survey, next week actually. The next survey kicks off next week. So, and we received 94,000 responses across our system. We say that it's probably the largest AI perception survey out there. The data that we received was how students were using it and in various ways that they're using it, same with faculty and staff.
  
  So if you go, if you were to go to the survey page and you can see all that data, it's all publicly And we'll leave that too.
  
  We'll drop that in the show notes so that our That'd audience can see that as great.
  
  There's, a way to make comparisons between faculty and staff or students and also between campuses, but just the general numbers informed us that students were using it, faculty were using it, that there was still some concern about its use from the environmental perspective or from privacy perspectives, understanding that. The messaging that might not show up there is some of the pushback that our students have had in using our private instance of OpenAI given potential concerns that they would be tracked and there were some of that, the lack of understanding around that which we're trying to assuage now.
  
  The other piece that didn't show up necessarily was the clarity aspect. It didn't show up that students are still confused as to whether they can use it in their instructional environment or not. And that seems to be the biggest question. So we still wrestle with that.
  
  Our statewide academic senate, systemwide academic senate put together a resolution around that, a recommendation for faculty as to how to implement if they're going to use AI in the class, if they're not going to. So there's some recommendations. Some campuses have come up with syllabi policy, not all of them have. So, and recommended syllabi policy I should say.
  
  And so that's one of the biggest challenges for the students is not understanding what's okay and what's not okay. So that's part of the literacy aspect. The responsible use aspect, which we're definitely still being challenged on.
  
  It's so funny. See that with my daughter, you know, who's a senior now at the University of Utah. And I see that with her. She just... When she doesn't know, she defaults to not using it at all, and she just... All they want is a little more clarity, a little more guidance around that.
  
  Yep. That's probably the number one issue. Yep.
  
  Well, and that leads into a question I'm really curious about. I think a lot of us that aren't necessarily in the classroom, now I am and you are, but a lot of people that aren't in the classroom on a regular basis make assumptions around what faculty need.
  
  And you have studied what do faculty actually need. Yeah. Which is really important. You started to talk about they need some guidance. Right? What else have you uncovered that faculty really need in order to be successful using AI or not using AI?
  
  Or technology in general. So, but from AI, yeah, AI in general, they need support and they need training. They need examples of syllabi policy, also how they're going to have to evolve their way that they're assessing their students now and what's, going to be appropriate in the future or now, given that AI is kind of, affecting assessments, the whole concept of assessing our students, evaluating what they've learned. So they need best practices and training around that.
  
  As a result, we've got some training we've got available. Campuses also are, we have 22 universities, so they're all, some of, most of them have their own training. But in addition to that, we've hired some AI fellows for the system level. There are faculty in the system that have been leaders in this area of teaching and learning with AI and we're developing communities of practice.
  
  And we also are facilitating town halls kind of environments where they're being called insights because they're based on a strategy by a professor who developed a way to bring people together over difficult topics. And so those types of town halls are now being generated and being facilitated across the system as well. So not only are we providing as many resources, and as I said, the campuses are doing that too. And we try to keep our events page on our AI Commons website up to date as to what the campuses are offering for their campuses and if they're willing to share with others.
  
  But also from the central system office, such as ourselves, we're trying to branch into other areas in addition to funding faculty to do the research that we did with those challenges that I mentioned that we have showcases for. Now also bring folks together in a instructional and or conversational environment, for developing those communities of practice. And that's being well received as...
  
  And we just kicked those off this academic year.
  
  Yeah. That's exciting. It's interesting too for me.
  
  It's not just about how to use the technology, like the technology itself, but it's like evolving your own teaching practice. Anyway, that just... As you were describing all of the different things, it's like, it could be AI. It could be a different technology. Insert any technology, but it's about how do I think about my teaching? Anyway, I just thought that was really an moment.
  
  And I see so many of us out there in education trying to teach the tech as opposed to teach the teach.
  
  Right? The metacognition level.
  
  Yep. Yep. Yep.
  
  I love that. Well, it's interesting too because the, you you had 80,000 student respondents to the survey, and there's some really great insights in the report about their perceptions. And it's... It really kind of is a mixed bag. They see it as a positive thing, but they also worry about their future, like, from a student standpoint... And we also, I think, kind of, to Melissa's point, we kind of make assumptions about students being digitally native and actually understanding how to use these tools. What's the approach for students in this?
  
  Well, again, I feel badly for them. In fact, the last group I spoke to, I just said I feel badly for you because you're in the throes of all this transformation and we have, we're just not quite there yet. We haven't righted the ship 100%. It's moving back and forth.
  
  Right now for our students, we just ask them to make sure that they're checking with their faculty, their professors as to what their policies are, engage with them on that around AI usage, and not ignore it and potentially to find out too late if there isn't, hasn't been discussed. So we're really trying to engage the faculty to be prepared for what they're going to accept or not accept or how they're going to provide their instructional environment. And then for the future for our students, I would just say, what we said to them is you want to have as much experience as possible with using AI tools and the variety of them.
  
  And then also we've been providing hackathons across the system in various capacities.
  
  Yeah, I would To again, a more hands on experiential learning experience that they can also use on their resumes, but also to be able to be prepared for whatever comes when they're hired.
  
  But part of that is that responsible use. I've heard from employers that they get sometimes, young employees that aren't aware of the responsible and the challenges, use of and challenges with AI.
  
  And so they just take it verbatim, they'll just use AI instead of you know, actually checking the work and or do you know, all that perspective there to understand that the tool they're using and how it's going to work best for their work environment Yeah. Or not.
  
  We've seen that. Well, it's not like we're having a conversation about that this morning, actually. And it is a challenge when they don't understand it. And then you're a student that is saying, you know, some of my peers are using this and they have a competitive advantage for this. Is that fair to me? Should I be using it as well? So your point about just being kind of in the eye of this storm, I think is really, really, you know, appropriate.
  
  Yep. Yeah. And that, you know, the students when I spoke to them about that, you know, they were getting a little frustrated just they were sharing a lot of their frustrations. And then when I said that they said, it kind of calm them down a bit to say, yeah, we realize that. And so we just have to work with it.
  
  I think they're looking for answers and really there aren't a lot right now. We're all just still learning in it together.
  
  Speaking of that learning together, how about administrators? You know, you not only support faculty and students through these initiatives, but you're also help leadership within campuses and even in the chancellor's office.
  
  What do administrators need to be able to at least navigate this kind of tumultuous time?
  
  Yep. Same thing. Same thing is understanding of how to use the tools, what tools to use that are benefit, what their use needs are.
  
  And that's huge with us. I've been just a provost retreat recently with all the 22 provosts. I've, just come back from a meeting with the Council of Library Deans. So, and then I'm on the statewide academic senate as a liaison.
  
  So I keep saying statewide, it's system wide, sorry. CSU system, it's not Yeah, how are they meant to use it and what tools are going to be the right tools for them?
  
  That's huge. So we've spun up some trainings around that and we're still exploring how we can help them with those, make those decisions. Because we're presenting them with the tools. We've got some other tools that we've licensed as well.
  
  But then the confusion can be as to how to use them effectively and should they try to use them or not. So we've on our site got a, under AI tools, a little chart now that's evolving that shows potentially how you could use each of these tools. And then we've got some internal training, professional training available as well.
  
  I think we make assumptions that because you're in a senior leadership position, you know technology. Right? And then we make assumptions that if you don't, you're comfortable speaking up. But I even watch my own colleagues, and I watch other educators who... You really have to get people comfortable to then start to admit, I'm not sure I actually understand it. Yeah. Right? And I think that's... I would imagine that's a challenge that you run into is just getting people to be... Feel safe enough to say, I actually need more help really understanding this.
  
  Yep. Yeah. A 100%. I mean we're all in that boat too, myself included.
  
  It's changing so So quickly, for me it's about keeping well read as much as possible and we have some opportunities so you can look at some courses as well.
  
  But yeah, a lot of time, you know, my dissertation was on the adoption of technology for faculty mostly, but it really was about time and capacity and support. A lot of the interviews of mine was a qualitative research. A lot of the faculty were afraid of looking stupid in front of their students so that being comfortable asking the questions for an administrator is the same thing. And then also just having the time to learn and to use it correctly, that's a big part of support around that, meaning training and or just who do I call when I need help kind of support and then capacity, just that's really time as well.
  
  Yeah. I think helping everyone involved, you know, we talked about educators, students, administrators, helping everybody involved involved in this process or living in this timeline understand that we're part of this big evolution, and we're in the middle of a a massive change and a massive shift, it's hard to see what the future looks like. That compounded a little bit in the last week, right, by some of the headlines by tech leadership saying, hey. We've got real valid concerns, and maybe we need to look at more tight regulations on this. Right? I heard those, and I was like, I can't wait to do the podcast with Leslie Bies. I wanna get her perspective.
  
  We're educators, we're out there helping people understand these tools, helping them, you know, build trust in these tools, use it. How do we counter that with these headlines that are now saying, oh, maybe we need to tap the brakes. Right? That doesn't necessarily mean we don't use the tools. How do we kind of justify this? And there are things about that that kind of keep you up at night.
  
  It's a great question because it, yeah, it's so relevant. And even the system wide Senate is drafting a resolution around that right now, because there are concerns about moving forward. But the reality is, leaning in is that AI is here. It's not going away.
  
  So how do we work with it? How do we use it in instructional, like I said, environment or work environment? And you know, we're, you know, higher education so we have different audience than K-twelve does and there are a lot of concerns there. There are concerns even at our level and that's part of the learning, the understanding of how these tools are going to support ourselves, whether it's from the, you know, there's a lot of headlines also about well-being and mental support.
  
  Might read some of those over the weekend, but also just in in regards to instruction, we just have to continue to experiment and see how this is going to go. So I just say we continue leaning in and it's not, you know, we can't really, we can tap the brakes but we can't stop. And we also have to continue to research and understand for the future, whether, how it affects us and as instructors, as administrators, and then also for our students as they prepare for the workforce.
  
  Yeah. Well, that's the... Did say the other thing too, those headlines, little kind of AI watching headlines about it's gonna automate 90% of white collar jobs within the next eighteen months. It's not. You know, like, how do we help them cut through that? How help do them see through those pieces? Right?
  
  Yeah. That's true. And I even had people ask me over the weekend about that, and these are people I know well. So I felt comfortable sharing that with them.
  
  But you know, when, when you're in an environment like ours, we just try to provide as many resources to support the decisions that folks are doing about whether or not one uses AI in the instructional environment. Work efficiencies, that's the other aspect. That's an area that's come up more and more that we could use it to update our Canvas courses for example. Right?
  
  You've seen those webinars or whatever. So that's something that faculty are really interested in learning as well. So, But they can't ignore what the other aspects are around AI. That's my opinion 100%.
  
  Yeah. And even for students, you know, one of the first questions a lot of these students are going to get asked when they apply for jobs is, how are you using AI to make yourself more efficient? Right? And if if we're not helping them have an answer for that, are we setting them up for success?
  
  Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So you all have done some really incredible work at the system level, and you're very open and transparent about sharing that work.
  
  By the way, again, I'll remind our listeners that we'll link to the research and all the publicly available resources. They're incredible. Chris of all time, two to three years out, what would you be so proud of to say that you and the system either accomplished or unpacked or did over the last couple of years to have an impact on, really, your students' lives?
  
  Well, we leaned in, using your words, early, and we learned along the way and just grew together as a system. And that's really made a difference, an impact on, on just sharing, on shared governance and other aspects that we haven't seen before. I would be proud of that. And again, we don't know how this is all going to evolve, just like we haven't known over the last several years around new technologies, but, but at least we're doing the best we can with what we know now.
  
  And we're providing as many resources as possible. We're keeping an ear to the ground and getting as much feedback from our users as possible.
  
  So that's also something that I think is really important and something I would be proud of as well.
  
  Yeah. The work you and your team are doing is truly amazing. And honestly, be able to be a partner with you and and have some insight into that has been fascinating. That so many of the stories I tell as I'm presenting really are from professors within the system.
  
  Right? And, their experiences, how they're adopting AI in the classroom. Right? There's...
  
  I have a number of those just sitting and listening to their stories. So I...
  
  Your transparency, like Melissa pointed out, has just been invaluable for us.
  
  Okay.
  
  Yeah. And your positive attitude towards it all. I think it really...
  
  It's not fear first. It's safety first. And...
  
  You know what I mean? And let's understand and be positive about how we're working through this. You just don't see that in all places in education or in many places in education. So I just have to say I really admire that in the work that you all are doing.
  
  Oh, thank you. Yeah. Safety responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. Curiosity as well.
  
  Amazing. Well, thank you, Leslie. This has been a fantastic conversation. You will be on again in the near future. I have no doubt.
  
  And I'm sure we'll see you Yes.
  
  After the next survey, maybe.
  
  Yes. Yes. Honestly. Because it's the... With that that student and faculty inside, it's just so valuable. It's amazing.
  
  Yeah. Thank you. We'll have preliminary data. We're presenting it at Educause, so we'll see what that looks like.
  
  I'll be there. I will I will bring a full report back from Melissa who I think is out of the country that week.
  
  I am that week. But... Yes.
  
  Awesome. Wonderful. Leslie, thank you again, and thank you so much for our audience for joining us on this episode of Educast 3,000. See you next time.
  
  Don't forget to like, subscribe, and drop us a review on your favorite podcast players so you don't miss an episode. If you have a topic you'd like us to explore more, please email us at InstructureCastInstructure dot com, or you can drop us a line on any of the socials. You can find more contact info in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you on the next episode of Educast 3,000.