Exemption from sanctions is valid as long is Donald Trump is president and I’m prime minister of Hungary

The agreement granting exemption from the US sanctions - which is crucial from the viewpoint of the Hungarian reduction of household energy bills - is valid as long as Donald Trump is the president of the United States and Viktor Orbán is the Hungarian prime minister, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán spoke about this on Tuesday on the programme 'Scales' broadcast on ATV's YouTube channel.

In response to the suggestion that there is chaos regarding the term of the exemption granted from the US sanctions, the Prime Minister said the President heard him and told him 'I understand, I grant you' the exemption. This means that "this is valid as long as he is president there and I'm prime minister here. When the conditions change, it will have to be re-negotiated," he said, adding that if this remains the case for twenty years, the agreement will last for twenty years.

He said he did not offer anything in return for the agreement because he did not want to conclude a business deal. In business, too, there are not only interests, but there is also trust, loyalty, long-term partnership, and the US President thought he would not ask for anything in return, he added.

He said "he figured it out" that there will be an agreement when in an interview Donald Trump said that he had not granted Hungary exemption from the sanctions. In explanation, he said that the US President is a businessman; if someone ups the stakes, that indicates that they want to come to an agreement.

At the same time, in continuation he said that there is no such thing with the US President that "you agree on something in advance and then you just pretend" because everything remains open until the very last moment. "I went there to ensure that when he closes this issue, he should believe that this is good for him, but in the meantime it should also be good for us," Mr Orbán pointed out.

He said with a person like President Trump there is no point in bluffing, "he sees through you within a second," and he does not like to be deceived. Therefore, he stated his stakes in advance: the Hungarian economy would be brought to its knees if the sanctions remained.

The Prime Minister was also asked about the fact that according to the official information of the US State Department, Hungary would buy reactors, nuclear fuel, LNG and defence industry equipment worth HUF 7,000 billion from the United States. Regarding this he said that this should be construed more as "up to" as there is no fixed amount. Instead, there are areas where they have formed cooperation, and this cooperation will have financial consequences. He also indicated that this package likewise did not include the US investments coming to Hungary.

He said "it doesn't matter what the US State Department writes," there is a presidential system in the United States, and therefore, the State Department or any other ministry is merely in charge of technical implementation. "Therefore, what's important is what the President says, not what anyone writes," he observed.

In answer to the question of whether the Hungarian government, too, functions this way, he said not at all as in Hungary there is a parliamentary system, rather than a presidential one.

At the same time, he recalled that in 2010 when the Fidesz-Christian Democratic People's Party alliance first won with a two thirds majority, he had held several discussions about the possible transformation of the country's power structure, including with the participation of former Foreign Minister János Martonyi. They discussed whether Hungary should change over to some kind of presidential or governor system. "We finally agreed that a parliamentary system suited us best," he said, also recalling that after each election victory, he raised this issue to find out whether opinions had changed. "You must always reform the congregation, this is the right attitude in politics as well," he explained.

He also spoke about the fact that there was a race on among countries in order to meet the US President - who entered into office in January - as soon as possible. The Prime Minister said he opted for a different strategy as he has a longstanding relationship with the President. He only wanted to meet with him once a comprehensive deal package had been completed and it was possible to table all important Hungarian-US affairs. The recently introduced US sanctions, which they had to manoeuvre the country out of, were a further addition to these issues, he pointed out.

Regarding the American protective financial shield, he said "we draw it down when we want to" and "in the form we want to." He indicated: he agreed with the President that should Hungary experience any financial difficulty, we can draw down what we need from one of the facilities. Hungary cannot find itself in a situation which could cause difficulties in the Hungarian economy because in that eventuality the United States and its president are behind Hungary and help, he laid down.

In answer to the question of whether there is a limit, he said there is not; in his opinion, the amount that we may need in the interest of stability is somewhere between 10 and 20 billion dollars or euros.

He took the view that today, Brussels looked upon a country like Hungary with animosity as it stood as an obstacle to the attainment of its goals. The negative relationship with Brussels increases, while the good relationship with the United States improves Hungary's financial exposure, he added.

He also said Hungary will buy four hundred million cubic metres of gas annually from the United States over a period of five years, and Hungary will also buy American nuclear fuel because it is better if we have a nuclear power station that is able to receive multiple types of fuel. Additionally, we will buy the American technology for the storage of spent nuclear fuel which is better than the present technology we have, he stated.

The Prime Minister highlighted that the Russian-American summit to be held in Budapest was on the agenda. In his view, the conclusion of an American-Russian agreement has not been frustrated, the delegations are engaged in ongoing negations in which Hungary, too, is involved to some extent, "we know certain things." At this point in time, talks broke down due to territorial issues, he revealed, observing that 22 per cent of Donetsk Oblast is not yet under Russian occupation. He stressed that he had not abandoned his peace mission, and he would try to be useful also in relation to the Russians in order to help conclude a deal.

Mr Orbán pointed out that Hungary had no political exposure of any kind vis-à-vis Russia. "We have historical exposure, but that's not the same," he said. He highlighted that the Russians had no influence over Hungarian political decisions; "we alone make the Hungarian government's political decisions on the basis of the considerations of the Hungarian people."

The Prime Minister said until 2008 he thought that it made sense for the western world to push further forward in an easterly direction and to stabilise as many countries as possible. In his words, between 1990 and 2008 Ukraine was unable to consolidate itself enough, however. He added that at the Bucharest NATO summit, the United States had supported Ukraine's NATO accession, but Europe had not. He stressed: it was after this, in 2009 that he had talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin and they agreed on the framework of future cooperation, including not raising historical issues, setting up a direct line and meeting with annual regularity. This is how it was all the way until "the world of sanctions set in."

Mr Orbán also spoke about the fact that in the future they would raise the issue of data sovereignty to the level of the most important elements of sovereignty. Hungary must be a data sovereign country, and to this end, it needs data gathering systems, meaning a satellite of its own. He added that the satellite would be created on the foundations of American technology.

He said next week he will have talks with the Hungarian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and it is to be hoped that he will sign an agreement with them on a small business tax reduction programme worth HUF 70 to 80 billion. He added that they had already reduced the interest of the Széchenyi Card, "this will start truly costing us next year," HUF 300 billion, while the benefits provided as part of the Demján Sándor Programme would amount to HUF 130 billion. He said at the last elections they made a number of pledges, and they do not want to abandon a single goal. "We must raise these funds somehow," and the price of this is that the deficit of the budget will be 5 per cent instead of 3.7 per cent, he explained, indicating that next year, too, they are planning with a 5 per cent deficit.

Mr Orbán said the war is the reason for the lower than expected rate of Hungary's economic growth. If there was no war, the growth of the Hungarian economy would be three times higher. Therefore, it is an elementary interest of the country that the war is brought to a conclusion, he said, observing that a 1 per cent growth would "generate" HUF 400 billion for the budget.

In response to the suggestion that the average pension only amounts to 53 per cent of the average wages, he said pensions should be measured against prices, rather than against wages. "The situation is that pensions haven't depreciated. There is no pensioner in Hungary […] whose pension today is worth less, who could afford less today than in 2010. There are only pensioners in Hungary who can afford more or the same," he said, adding that they re-introduced the thirteenth monthly pension, while it is to be hoped that next year pensioners will receive the first instalment of the fourteenth monthly pension. He took the view that the Hungarian pension system was overly complex and had its internal injustices, but reforming the system would convey greater risks than continuing on the present path. The present path means raising pensions.

Regarding the Central Statistical Office's adjusted poverty data - according to which in 2024 poverty or social exclusion affected almost 20 per cent of the population and every fifth child lived in extreme poverty or at risk of poverty - Mr Orbán took the view that the situation was not ideal, but was better than it had been before, and did not agree with the claim that this was an especially poor result within the EU. "We are on the right track, we have not yet achieved our goals, we have an enormous amount of work yet to do, but we're on the right track," he said, adding that on the issue of poverty we are "absolutely" on the right track. He also stated that there was no child in Hungary who had no access to family support of some kind.

Regarding the possible termination of the price cap, he said it does not matter what he wants, what matters is whether the opportunity will emerge. If inflation remains high in Europe or in the western world on a long-term basis, we will have to live together with the means that seek to control it, he argued. If there was no price cap, milk and flour would be 50 per cent more expensive, eggs would cost 40 per cent more, while certain dairy products would cost 130 to 140 per cent more, he pointed out. Hungary cannot live together with the food price level that there would be without the price cap, he laid down.

He pointed out that in his view the capital had long since been bankrupt according to the logic of traditional fiscal thinking, except "they take care of it." Budapest is a very rich city, in actual fact, it is rolling in money, at present, there are several projects worth hundreds of millions or even billions of forints under way in Budapest, financed from the national budget. "So, the capital is the number one winner of the past 15 years," he said. When the capital says that the government treats it unfairly, "it's a miracle that the ceiling doesn't cave in on them," the Prime Minister stated. In answer to the question of whether they would try to come to an agreement with Budapest, he said there is no need for an agreement, the city must be governed instead. He stressed that if the metropolitan leadership was unable to resolve the situation, the government would help.

Regarding former central bank governor György Matolcsy and the functioning of the National Bank, he said he does not yet see the situation clearly, and additionally, he has a very strong emotional bond to the former central bank governor. He highlighted that we had very much to thank György Matolcsy for, the former governor of the central bank rescued Hungary several times from difficult situations which "I think perhaps no one other than he would have been able to extricate the country from." He stressed that they had to wait for the result of the investigations and to form a judgement thereafter. But - he added - if a single forint disappeared from there in an irregular fashion, someone must be responsible for that, someone must find themselves in a tight corner, and "tight it will be."

Mr Orbán also said that in 2010 the majority of electors listened to their reason, this is why they invited them back into government.

"I think the vast majority of these people will persevere with us also this time because they listen to their reason," he added.

In answer to a question relating to the data leak from the Tisza application, he said he himself is only just learning what data sovereignty means, it is not easy to understand what we are in actual fact up against. Regarding the emergence of Russian hackers at the Foreign Ministry, he said at the time he did not hesitate, he sent there all the right experts. The data controller must protect the data under its control, he laid down, adding that he does not understand why Ukrainians had to design the program.

In answer to the question of why he does not want to debate with President of the Tisza Party Péter Magyar, he said he has a challenger, but it is called not Tisza Party, but Brussels. The Tisza Party is a project that was built in Brussels, it is financed from Brussels, that is where the power centres which keep it alive are, and those who vote for the Tisza Party vote for Brussels. The head of this snake is to be found in Brussels, he debates with Brussels, but not with its Hungarian lieutenants or agents, he laid down.

The Prime Minister avoided a question relating to the characterisation of his challenger Péter Magyar by saying that this is not his duty. "I see things, I think others see them, too, I'm sometimes compelled to say something due to the political hoo-ha, but it doesn't feel right," he said.

"Ask his former wife," he said in answer to the question of whether he regards the President of the Tisza Party as a worthy challenger.

He mentioned a lack of judgement when asked about how much the clemency case still hurt. Mr Orbán said the President of the Republic should not have granted clemency, she should have said that she had faith in the judgement of the court. Under no circumstances should she have taken on the burden of "deciding personally, instead of the court, on such a morally sensitive case involving the most important matter of all," he stated.

The Prime Minister said he builds "a castle from people," and very robust support pillars have been knocked out of this structure, the departure of the two ladies from politics is an enormous loss for the country, for the nation, for the Right.

"Each element hurts," he said.

In answer to a question, he denied having invited former Justice Minister Judit Varga back into politics.

The host Egon Rónai started the programme by recalling that Mr Orbán had not given ATV an interview for 15 years. At the end of the almost ninety-minute-long interview, he asked the Prime Minister whether he would come again on the show. Mr Orbán said he asks ATV "not to accept money from abroad," and then he will.

"On this matter we won't change," Mr Rónai replied.