Radio interview - ABC Sydney

DOM KNIGHT, HOST: The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has recalled Parliament for two days next week to debate the federal government's legislative response to the Bondi terror attack. It now seems though that the Coalition will vote against the bill, which includes changes to both gun and hate speech laws. Despite spending weeks criticising the PM for not immediately recalling Parliament in the wake of the Bondi terror attack, the Coalition is now citing concerns that the legislation has been rushed. To pass it, Labor needs support in the Senate from either the Coalition or The Greens. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, good morning.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you, Dom.

KNIGHT: You've brought back Parliament early to do this, but some of your opponents want more time, including Michael McCormack who was chatting to me yesterday about this. Why the rapid timetable from your perspective?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is somewhat stunning, frankly. The Coalition, day after day, very clearly called for Parliament to be recalled not on Monday, January 19, but during Christmas week. Sussan Ley, David Littleproud, Jonno Duniam, James Paterson, they were all out there every single day. And indeed in a media release on 18 December, just four days after that horrific antisemitic terrorist attack, when what we were prioritising, of course, was the security issues - was this a one off? Were these people part of a cell? What was the motivation? Just trying to ensure that people were safe -They were calling for Parliament to be resumed immediately, to use their words. Now they're saying that this is somehow rushed, even though my government has moved in a considered, orderly way, which is the way that we function. I've met with Sussan Ley on a weekly basis. We provided notice in advance that we would prepare the legislation for the 12th of January, for this Monday. That we would be consulting groups including the Jewish community, the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, but other groups as well about the drafting of the legislation. We would then release it publicly. The opposition were briefed fully by the departments on Monday. We've said we're open to amendments in order to make sure that we get this right and we haven't heard any proposed amendments. What we've had is people who haven't even looked at the legislation declaring that it should be opposed. I saw Michael McCormack on 7:30 last night speaking about hundreds of pages of legislation. Well, that's not true. It's just over 100 pages, the legislation. This is complex, but that is what we're working through. We've had a Joint Committee on Intelligence look at this. Their public hearings have commenced immediately. You know, you can't have it both ways. And it just seems to me the people who were watching the events since December 14 would have seen politics being played by the Coalition. They're still playing politics, and I'm just stunned that they are saying they will vote against legislation, a number of their members, without even looking at it.

KNIGHT: Prime Minister, there was a possibility here for a moment of national unity, as happened after Port Arthur. Is that in your view, now off the table?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've called consistently for national unity. I've consulted extensively. I sat down with Sussan Ley in my office on Monday. I sat down the previous Monday. I have regularly engaged with her. I've engaged with The Greens party leader, Larissa Waters, constructively. We've had conversations over yesterday and the day before. I have transparently outlined a timetable in media conferences in my courtyard. There's nothing surprising here. This should have been a moment of national unity. That's what occurred after the Lindt Siege, after Port Arthur, after the Bali Bombings. And what we are seeing here, indeed even after crisis not associated with national security, such as Covid, myself as Opposition Leader of the Labor Party, engaged constructively. We voted for legislation even where our amendments weren't successful. We said we weren't going to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. And we knew what was required in a national moment. And I have continued to, there have been all sorts of things said about myself and the government. We haven't engaged in rhetorical hitbacks. What we've done is continue to engage constructively. I'll continue to engage with the community. I was in Bondi again yesterday with the community, engaging constructively about the National Day of Mourning that will be held next Thursday, 22 January, and engaging as well about other issues that the community are dealing with. I haven't taken cameras with me on those occasions, I've engaged constructively. And I would just say to the Coalition, this should be a moment of national unity. I say that to the Crossbenchers and the Greens as well. I've had discussions with Allegra Spender, who of course, is a local member and is, of course playing a constructive role. And I just find it astonishing that people who were arguing this was absolutely urgent, was on the front page of papers day after day after day, and now they're saying, 'oh no, well, actually, it's not that urgent'. And I saw one comment from Andrew Hastie saying that this could wait until after the Royal Commission. So pushed into 2027 before anything is done. Well, on the one hand, they're saying do it in Christmas week of 2025, and now they're talking about pushing things off until 2027.

KNIGHT: Prime Minister, there are some who want changes to the legislation who aren't from the other side of politics. Among them Chris Minns and Peter Wertheim from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, who joined us yesterday. They're concerned about the religious exception for religious texts. And Anne Twomey, the constitutional lawyer, for instance, is concerned that the hate speech provisions are too broad. Are you open to those sorts of revisions either before the bills are passed, if they are, or afterwards?

PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I've made it very clear. This is a complex area of law, that's why we didn't bring Parliament back on Christmas Eve and pass the laws without going through detailed work by the Attorney General's Department and by the Department of Home Affairs and consulting community groups. But if there are changes which are constructive, I've said very clearly that we are open to dialogue. Chris Minns the provisions in the laws are basically taken from New South Wales. They're very similar and our objective is the same and we're working very constructively, hand in hand with the New South Wales government on the full range of issues. People have, like Anne Twomey is very respected. There are constitutional issues is one of the things that we had to consider here, because the Constitution provides for freedom of political expression and so we will work through all of those issues. But we had that in mind, the drafters, when they drafted these laws. But that's why we're having the Intelligence Committee look at these laws. That's why as well, we said we're open to a quick Senate inquiry next Monday night, if the Senate Legal and Con Committee wants to have a look at these laws further. We are going out of our way to be consultative, to be orderly, to tell people what we're doing and then go about doing it, because this should be a moment of national unity. These laws should be supported by every single member of the House of Representatives and the Senate because you can't just identify issues and problems without trying to work through solutions. Now, the Coalition have continued to engage in politics here and I just say to them this should be a moment of national unity. That is what has occurred with other national security issues in the past. I think people will look at the way that they have conducted themselves and if they vote against this bill, well, they will have to justify the gap that is there between a political party that is led by someone who said, to quote the leader of the Opposition, 'the Coalition calls on the Prime Minister to immediately recall Parliament to pass urgent legislation'. And she said that very clearly. And then, 'I demand the Prime Minister recall the Parliament before Christmas and implement the necessary laws - the Parliament must convene immediately'. That was on the 18th of December, just four days after this attack in a written media release. As well as the daily commentary and media appearances calling for that, and that was backed up by senior members of, the leader of the National Party said the same thing on the 17th of December on the ABC Radio National program. 'Let's recall Parliament - I challenge him today'. Well, we have recalled Parliament, which is what people would have expected. We've recalled it in an orderly way, not on one day's notice, but with effectively a couple of weeks' notice to the Coalition. And I find it absolutely astonishing that they are continuing to play politics. If they have amendments, by all means put them forward. Pick up the phone, engage constructively and we will engage because this needs to be a moment that is above party politics.

KNIGHT: PM, finally if I may, taking us away from the politics and the process for a moment, the thought in so many of our minds immediately after the attack was how do we stop this from happening again? That was to the first thing we thought of, the worst terrorist attack in Australian history. How confident are you that these changes would stop or lessen the impact of another Bondi and in particular the limit of four guns that's in the legislation? I understand that the Bondi perpetrators only took four guns with them to that scene.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, actually the number of guns is a matter for state and territory governments. What's there with the gun laws in this legislation is firstly, it will deny any non-citizen the right to a gun licence. Now that would have stopped Mr Akram getting a gun, full stop. That is what this legislation will do. Secondly, it will provide for customs changes to stop the importing of some dangerous weapons because new technology means there's new changes. So you need to update, and bring up to date, the number of weapons that are banned from entering Australia - that's the second thing that it will do. And the third thing it will do is to set up a guns buyback scheme. So this is a common sense approach. I would ask people to think about the contrast between the way that the Parliament functioned after Port Arthur, where the Labor Party, of which I was a member in the House of Representatives, backed John Howard and Tim Fischer under Kim Beazley's leadership, and backed in that gun buyback, joint with the states and territories, and so that is the third thing it will do. The issue of licencing and those issues - it remains with state and territory governments. But one thing we are doing that hadn't been done, and I think people would be surprised that it hadn't been done, is introduce a National Firearms Registry so that police across different state borders can make sensible checks and so that it's digitised. The fact that some state governments still have essentially paper records which therefore restricts the capacity to check whether it's appropriate that someone be given a weapon is really important reform. And so that is absolutely critical going forward, and that's why we have done that. And you know, I quote David Meagher, who's the brother of Peter Meagher, a former police officer who lost his life there at Bondi. As he said, an antisemite without a gun is just a hate-filled person, an antisemite with a gun is a killer. We need to make sure that this can't happen and wouldn't happen if these laws were in place. It won't interfere with people who legitimately need use of guns on farms and others who are engaged - that's not the target here. And so there is nothing in this Bill that should be opposed by people on the basis of the guns issue. It's just making sure that these laws are kept up to date, which is what you would expect after an event such as December 14.

KNIGHT: Prime Minister, thank you for your time. We'll look at the progress of these laws with great interest in the next few days ahead as the debate continues. And we'll all pause in a week's time to remember the victims with the National Day of Mourning that you've announced. Thanks for joining us.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Dom.