Television interview - ABC Insiders

DAVID SPEERS, HOST: The Prime Minister is with me now. Anthony Albanese, from the honeymoon to the Insiders studio. Congratulations, firstly, on your wedding.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, David. Thank you very much, and can I take the opportunity to thank Australians for the very warm wishes that we have received. It's been quite heartening, and it was a wonderful marriage and then a four-day honeymoon is short, but it was wonderful to have a bit of time off together.

SPEERS: Well, that's good to hear. Just mentioned before you've come here, you've popped in at the Emergency Australia Management headquarters. This situation on the Central Coast and the Mid North Coast, it's not a great start to the summer, is it?

PRIME MINISTER: No, it's not. And New South Wales in general is facing quite a difficult season, we suspect. Houses lost yesterday. Fortunately, no loss of life. That of course is always a priority. But fires burning as well in the Upper Hunter. There's also been some issues in Tasmania and in Western Australia around the Kimberley region as well, in the Pilbara. So, this summer, of course, like all summers that would appear in recent times, is going to be a difficult one. But New South Wales in particular has a range of preconditions, if you like, for being quite a difficult one.

SPEERS: Let's get to the issue that many families are no doubt discussing this weekend, the social media ban that's coming in from Wednesday. You've acknowledged this won't be 100 per cent effective, but it will make a difference. How will you be measuring the success of this?

PRIME MINISTER: I think it is a success already, David, because what's happening is that parents are having this discussion with their young ones. We had a discussion with some of the kids who are visiting the studio here this morning. That will happen. It's happening in schools; it's happening with parents having those discussions with children. It's happening as well, to hold these social media giants to account. Anyone who reads the stories of parents that are in the Sunday newspapers today, who've lost loved ones, would have their heart torn. This is a change that hasn't come from government. This is a change that has come from parents taking what is a personal tragedy and channelling that into wanting no other parents to go through the heartbreak that they've experienced.

SPEERS: If it turns out, though, that a lot of kids are getting around this through whatever means, what will you do?

PRIME MINISTER: We'll continue, of course, to monitor. But we've said very clearly that this won't be perfect. Just like, chances are, last night was Saturday night, somewhere in Australia, someone under 18 got a drink in a pub. But it's the right thing to do for society to express its views, its judgement about what is appropriate. And there is no doubt when we look at the rise in mental health issues faced by young people, when we look at the social harm which has been caused by social media, that we want kids to have the opportunity to enjoy their childhood and we want parents to be empowered as well to have that discussion. It's important here to recognise that Australia isn't going alone. On 1 January, change kicks in in Malaysia. We have New Zealand. The European Union in the past fortnight has adopted a resolution moving towards this change going forward as well. So, this is a global issue that the world is dealing with.

SPEERS: To that end, you had an event on the sidelines of the United Nations in New York. Which brings us to the travel bill for Anika Wells, your Minister, who was there along with you, Penny Wong and so on. It turns out nearly $100,000 was spent just on flights for the Minister, a staffer and a public servant to attend with her. Does that seem like a wise use of taxpayers' money to you?

PRIME MINISTER: This was a really important event, David. It was an important event that directly led to the European Union taking action. You were at the event, David. And one of the comments that I heard from various UN officials and other world leaders who were there - it was addressed by Ursula von der Leyen of the European Union, by Prime Minister Mitsotakis of Greece, we have Prime Minister Rabuka of Fiji, we have world leaders there listening - and the comments that were heard afterwards were, 'I've been to lots of forums at the United Nations, this is the first time I've been to a forum that has changed my mind.' And the most powerful speech given there was by Emma Mason, who spoke about losing her young daughter, Tilly. And if you didn't have a tear in your eye during that speech, then you need to check whether your heart is there.

SPEERS: It was a very powerful speech. I suppose the question is, was the importance of having Anika Wells there worth that sort of expense to the taxpayer?

PRIME MINISTER: Anika Wells was of course, doing her job as the Communications Minister who's in charge of this world-leading legislation, passed with bipartisan support, to give credit particularly to Peter Dutton when he was Opposition Leader. And it was an important event and it wasn't just the event there. It was then the follow up of people wanting to have meetings, have discussions. How is this going to work? What can we do to get buy-in here? And when you've got Australia, a middle power, taking on these global giants, then I tell you what, David, it has helped that we have others in our corner now rather than the potential which was there for us to be isolated by these giants, the big tech companies who have a lot of power and influence.

SPEERS: I guess the problem here with this flight was that the plan was that the Minister was going to go on your plane, but was caught up with the Optus Triple Zero problem here in Australia, then had to make a last minute booking to get to New York. You or your office would have had to approve that, is that right? Did you?

PRIME MINISTER: Of course.

SPEERS: So, you did approve this?

PRIME MINISTER: Of course.

SPEERS: You thought $34,000 for a flight was okay?

PRIME MINISTER: We spoke - I didn't get all the receipts, David. What happened was I was travelling. We spoke on the Friday night, we spoke again on the Saturday morning before I departed, and made the decision that Minister Wells would stay to deal with these issues.

SPEERS: So, this was your call?

PRIME MINISTER: As a government, we make calls, David.

SPEERS: But on this decision to go ahead with that flight, that's yours?

PRIME MINISTER: We make decisions as a government, David. And Minister Wells stayed back and therefore it was, I assume, I don't - this will come as a shock, David, but I don't ring up and make bookings myself.

SPEERS: But you or your office have to approve that flight?

PRIME MINISTER: Of course. And we spoke on the morning and Minister Wells travelled. It was a very significant event for Australia.

SPEERS: The other story that's come to light today, as I mentioned, is the use of a family reunion entitlement for a weekend at Thredbo. Anika Wells says she had ministerial duties there, did some skiing as well. Was that an appropriate use of the family reunion entitlement?

PRIME MINISTER: What you've left off there, David, was what she was there for, which was for a Paralympic event. There was an announcement of herself as Sports Minister, just like we've made announcements here at the Australian Institute of Sport. We made an announcement about the doubling of funding for parasports as well.

SPEERS: But I'm asking about the use of the family reunion entitlement. Is that what you'd use it for?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, there are family reunion entitlements available. All of the travel was within guidelines.

SPEERS: So, you don't have a problem with a weekend at Thredbo?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, she was working and there were announcements and there were events there, David.

SPEERS: I just remember, and people with long memories would know Tony Burke, many years ago, did repay thousands of dollars to the taxpayer for a family reunion trip to Uluru. It was within the entitlements, but it was copping a lot of criticism. He repaid it. You're not saying Anika Wells should?

PRIME MINISTER: I'm saying that it was within entitlements and Anika Wells was working on that trip as Sports Minister, participating. I think the lifting up of parasports has been something that my government's been very proud of.

SPEERS: Would you have done this?

PRIME MINISTER: And that's been driven. That's been driven by Anika Wells.

SPEERS: Would you have done this?

PRIME MINISTER: Look, there are rules there and I'm not going to go through each and every one. You know, I've got a big job, David.

SPEERS: Appreciate that. Well, let's talk about some of that -

PRIME MINISTER: And they are completely within rules and within the guidelines.

SPEERS: Some of the other parts of your job, people are struggling with cost-of-living, which I suppose is why people do look at things like this and scratch their heads. Part of that cost-of-living struggle is being felt by older Australians at the moment. Your new aged care reforms came in about a month ago. We're getting quite a bit of feedback through the ABC's Your Say project about this. Some have told us they or their elderly parents are having to pay between $80 and $120 for support to have a shower and they've had to cut back on the number of showers they're having each week. Is this what you intended?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's be clear to go back a bit, David. We inherited an aged care system that had been summarised by the Royal Commission's interim findings, by its title, Neglect. What we have done is to repair the system. The biggest reforms that have been put in place this century began just at the beginning of November. And what we have done, firstly, is to make sure we addressed workforce issues by a significant increase in pay. What that's done is stop people leaving the sector. We have some seven million additional minutes of care for older Australians every single day. We have put in place 99 per cent of the time now there is a nurse back into nursing homes. We have reformed the system with the legislation that was pushed through by Minister Wells at the end of last year.

SPEERS: But the concern that's being raised is particularly about the cost of getting support for a shower. And the concern is that this should be regarded as clinical care and covered. Should people be having to cut back the number of showers they're having?

PRIME MINISTER: No, well, look, we took advice from the experts on what clinical care was. The Government meets 100 per cent of the cost of clinical care.

SPEERS: Should that be reviewed, though? Should a shower be considered -

PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we do constantly, David, is we always monitor a new system. That's what we do.

SPEERS: So, this is open to change?

PRIME MINISTER: That's what we do, David. We monitor and make sure that the system is delivering the care that is intended.

SPEERS: So, what's the message then, to those who are contacting us and no doubt MPs as well? Will you review whether showering should be covered?

PRIME MINISTER: What we do, David, is more importantly, we review the system at all times to make sure it's delivering the care that is required.

SPEERS: On another cost-of-living measure, inflation's been edging higher. You need to make a call in the next week or two on whether to extend the household energy rebate beyond the end of this year. It's worth 150 bucks every six months. Should families expect that this will continue or not?

PRIME MINISTER: What we've said, David, is that this wouldn't be in place forever. This was an interim measure. We'll give consideration to that in the lead up to MYEFO and make an announcement before the end of the year, once we make that decision.

SPEERS: I mean, if power bills came down, it would be a lot easier. You're working out what to do on gas to get more gas into the market. Can you tell us, can you give us any indication what your thinking is about a gas reservation policy? Will all the gas exporters have to keep more here?

PRIME MINISTER: We want to make sure, importantly, you've got to address what the objective is. The objective is cheaper gas. And so we're examining that. We won't be making a decision tomorrow, contrary to what has been reported. What we're doing is working those issues through and we'll make an announcement before the end of the year.

SPEERS: Okay. Will all the gas exporters be covered by what you do?

PRIME MINISTER: What we do is we do proper analysis and discussion through a Cabinet government that I lead and we'll do that. We'll have discussions this week, next week, we'll make an announcement before the end of the year.

SPEERS: Prime Minister, it has been quite a year for you.

PRIME MINISTER: It has.

SPEERS: You joined us at the start of the year and I think the political landscape looked very different then. You are now in a commanding political position and there's been this constant debate about how you use this moment, how ambitious you should be seven months on from the election as this year comes to an end. How are you thinking about this?

PRIME MINISTER: I went to the National Press Club straight after the election and made it clear that for those people who think, thought, oh, well, they've got this majority now, they should ignore what they went to the election with, that that wasn't what we would do. That this would be a year of delivery. So, we've gone through one by one and ticked that off. Paid Parental Leave extended, superannuation on Paid Parental Leave, the increased wages in the minimum wage, the energy support through the batteries program that has made a difference, 20 per cent off student debt. One by one, ticking off the commitments that we made at the election campaign, and then delivering it.

SPEERS: Which is important, but you still have a budget stuck in deficit and a tax system that many say hurts younger people. Are these things you're willing to take on?

PRIME MINISTER: I also said in that speech at the very beginning of the term that that wasn't the limit of our ambition. So, this year, if you like, should be seen as a step on the journey, not the destination.

SPEERS: So, 2026, then?

PRIME MINISTER: The job of reform is never done. And in the lead up to the Budget in May next year, we'll give consideration to the full suite of policy measures. The economy, of course, is front and centre, but also social policy. We've got through our environmental reforms on the last sitting day.

SPEERS: On social policies, is gambling advertising on the list?

PRIME MINISTER: We've always said that we'll look at - are always looking to do more. We've done more to tackle that issue than any government since Federation.

SPEERS: But will you do what the Murphy Review on gambling as well?

PRIME MINISTER: A lot of those things were about state government, and many of the commentators on the Murphy Review haven't actually read it. So, there's a range of measures there. We've done a range of measures already, but of course there is more to do.

SPEERS: So, the priority, the start of 2026, finally?

PRIME MINISTER: Is always the economy. Is always the economy. Making sure that we continue to see, we've had eight consecutive quarters of real wage growth. We think that's a good thing. We want to make sure that people continue to earn more and keep more of what they earn. We'll have the tax cuts kicking in in July next year and the following July. But we'll also look at the full suite of measures is what my job is to do. I am quite pleased, if you like, that the Government has put in place a system through our cabinet committee process where we've gone through literally and ticked off the big commitments that we made to the Australian people. You've got to show the Australian people that faith in democracy is deserved. And if we had have got elected and just thrown all that out, then I think that would have been undermined. But we know there's more to do and there will also be inevitably, David, there will be issues arise that we can't foresee now. I look forward to speaking to you at the beginning of next year and I'm sure some of those will have arisen over the, over the summer break.

SPEERS: We look forward to that as well. Prime Minister, thank you for joining us this morning and through the year and hope you get a bit of a break.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, David, and Merry Christmas to you and all the Insiders listeners.

SPEERS: Thanks very much.