Sundance 2025: “Endless Cookie” is an animated look at two half-brothers’ complicated relationship

Sundance 2025: "Endless Cookie" is an animated look at two half-brothers' complicated relationship

Image Source: Sundance Institute

Nine years in the making and told through handcrafted animation, the documentary "Endless Cookie" explores the complex bond between Seth and Pete Scriver, two half brothers-one Indigenous, one white. While traveling from the present in isolated Shamattawa, Canada to bustling 1980s Toronto, the film debates complex issues of race and identity while reflecting on the challenges that come with trying to make a documentary while raising nine kids and a bunch of dogs.

"Endless Cookie" premieres January 25th at the Sundance Film Festival. Before the debut, we got a chance to speak with Seth Scriver, whose animations are the foundation of the film, and editor Sydney Cowper. Seth started animating the film in Flash 8 before upgrading nearly 16 (!) generations of the software to Animate and pairing it with After Effects. Cowper came on six years later to bring the story to life in the edit, using a combination of Premiere Pro, Animate, Audition, Frame.io and Media Encoder. "We kept our software within the Adobe family to keep our crazy workflow as seamless as possible,"Cowper said.

Read on for our conversation with Seth Scriver and Cowper about their creative inspirations, meticulous workflows, and the making of "Endless Cookie."

Seth, how did you first get into animation? What drew you to it?

SCRIVER: I used to go through the garbage cans of the computer animation class that I wasn't enrolled in and reanimate the projects in there, messing them up, dissecting them, and giving them a bizarre new life.

What was the inspiration behind this project? What were you trying to achieve?

SCRIVER: I was inspired to record my brother Pete's stories. He's one of the greatest storytellers, and in the end, it turned into a type of family portrait.

Sydney, how did you first get involved with this project?

COWPER: I was working with producer Alex Ordanis on a Netflix project that was starting to wind down, and he needed someone to extract Seth's animations from Adobe Animate, and the sound edits from Adobe Audition and other platforms, and rebuild everything inside of Premiere Pro to start assembling it into the film. The original plan was for it to be a short-term side project, lasting only a few months, but as we realized the potential of the film, we all firmly committed to the long-term project. I came on board as picture editor for the next three years and worked with Seth and the producers to break the story and bring it to life in the edit.

Where were you when you found out you got into Sundance? How did you feel?

SCRIVER: One minute before we got an email saying we got into Sundance, I was praying-no joke. I felt like a crazy person, desperately hoping that we would be accepted into Sundance. I could not believe how fast the results were-I felt great about it! I think it was just a crazy coincidence, but it still made me feel like I was magic.

COWPER: I was on vacation in Mexico sitting at a little breakfast spot in Mérida when Alex called me to tell me. I felt very excited, a little bit surprised (I didn't know we had submitted), and relieved that after years of everyone's hard work (especially Seth's), our film was going to get such a great world premiere.

What Adobe tools did you use on this project? Why did you originally choose them and how do you begin a project/set up your workspace?

SCRIVER: I was animating this project about nine years ago using an old version of Adobe Flash that my uncle had bought years before that. I believe it was Flash 8-I used to have to export PNGs and then import that into After Effects and then export a video file. But about three years ago, one of my producers, Alex, gave me access to Adobe Creative Cloud. I was hesitant at first, but eventually upgraded 16 generations of Flash to what is now called Animate, and it's great! I can export directly to high-quality video, and there are a bunch of functions that make it easier to organize my animation. It's made my life and process much quicker and better.

COWPER: I used Animate to output Seth's animations into our 4K masters, then I used Premiere Pro to edit the film, Audition to bring the dialogue edits into Premiere, and then, naturally, I used Media Encoder for all of my outputs. We used Frame.io to distribute cuts to the team for the whole process. We kept our software within the Adobe family to keep our crazy workflow as seamless as possible.

I begin every project by setting up my edit hard drive with a good, organized folder system. Then I create my project, set up my folders within my Premiere Pro project (Assets, Media, Music, SFX etc.), and direct all the project data to be written to my edit hard drive. I simplify all the windows and views to be as minimalist as possible, import my media, and immediately make HD proxies using Premiere's integrated proxy assistant once everything is imported into my project, then I start editing.

Tell us about a favorite scene or moment from this project and why it stands out to you.

SCRIVER: I think the interruption of my brother telling a story about how he was stuck in his own trap that he set. In the audio recording, it got interrupted by his son, Antonio, flushing a toilet. It led us to just give in to all the distractions and interruptions that happened in our lives while making the movie.

COWPER: When I received scenes from Seth, since it's animated content, there were little to no sound effects-no foley, no ambience-with the exception of a handful of scenes where Seth did add some sound design. In my timeline, it was usually just animation and the dialogue that Seth had animated. I got to build the soundscapes for a lot of the scenes (at least until our post sound team got their very talented hands on the film). There is a hilarious scene where a character climbs a chicken truck and starts rescuing and throwing live chickens into the streets of Kensington Market. I spent so much time placing chicken squawks and clucks. I've never been so excited and focused on placing SFX than in that scene, because I couldn't stop laughing at this ridiculous scene I was editing and how the SFX elevated it.

What were some specific challenges you faced that were unique to your project? How did you go about solving them?

SCRIVER: Pete and I live thousands of miles apart. Pete lives way up in the Bush near Hudson's Bay, and I live in Toronto. So, it was hard to travel to see each other. I basically just had to work and save money or apply for grants to travel and see each other and record stories, which was really fun when it happened.

COWPER: Our biggest challenge was our technical workflow. I was outputting Seth's animation as our 4K masters directly from Animate and using Premiere Pro to create our offline proxies to edit with. Seth had been working on the project for several years before I came on board and had built the story using audio recordings he took of his family, and he cut together the dialogue first on one platform, then later in Adobe Audition, and then finally directly in his own Premiere Pro project. So, locating the right sound edits of the story, figuring out each different software's best way of outputting, and then importing the timelines into Premiere Pro while maintaining any of the mixing and effects Seth had used was tough. I'd spend quite a bit of time rebuilding the audio tracks for each scene inside of Premiere Pro to match what Seth had animated to, and then after that point, I could start cutting up and editing the individual scene for story and pacing.

If you could share one tip about Premiere Pro, After Effects, and/or Animate, what would it be?

SCRIVER: I didn't do this in the movie "Endless Cookie," but I plan to, at some point, export movies from Animate with the outline tool on. It looks interesting, and I want to experiment with that. Experiment and have fun.

COWPER: If you're using Premiere Pro as your editing software, and you need to make the offline editorial proxies, don't bother creating them outside of the project and importing and linking them up. Just bring in your 4K media and use the built-in proxy tool. You can create the proxies within the software. They will automatically link up to your online media, you can edit with your footage while your proxies are being generated and automatically linked for you, and then there's no onlining at the end of the project. It saves so much time and you can start editing sooner.

Who is your creative inspiration and why?

SCRIVER: Lots of friends and family are super inspiring to me-my son, my nieces and nephews, the nog-a-dog family, DIY zines and animations, lowbrow graffiti. My neighborhood where I grew up and still live, Kensington Market/Chinatown, has lots of gems that always inspire interesting and/or funny ideas.

COWPER: I don't have any individual who is my creative inspiration. I've been inspired by small moments of cinema that I could apply to specific moments in my work, but my choices always come from somewhere within. I was a big book nerd as a kid, and I trained in piano for 12 years, so I pull on both of those things when I'm editing. If I'm stuck on how to edit a scene, I sit down on the couch with my script and read it as if it's a book: whatever/whoever my mind is imagining seeing while I'm reading the script, I write down on the script, if I were in the room with these people, what would I be looking at? I act as if continuity isn't an issue and do a paper edit of how I would want to see the story without getting caught up with technical stuff. Then, I take the script to my desk and I follow my own paper edit as best as I can. My pacing comes from my years studying music, and every cut I make is based on my internal metronome of the scene as if it's a dance or piece of music.

What's something tough you've had to face in your career, and how did you overcome it? What advice do you have for aspiring filmmakers or content creators?

SCRIVER: This feature was super-hard because it took so freaking long to animate, mostly by myself, and there was no real reward. I had lots of fun along the way, don't get me wrong, but I had to continually tell myself and force myself to keep at it, work on it, and it'll be done someday. And here we are nine years later! Many days, it felt like it would never be done. I also had horrible carpal tunnel and could barely work for a certain amount of time, but a friend told me to beat my wrist with stinging nettle, and that cured me. I highly recommend that if anyone is having carpal tunnel or repetitive stress problems.

COWPER: At a certain point in your career, either when you financially can afford to, or when you've had enough experience trying out a lot of different things within your craft, you have to make the decision about what kinds of projects you want to work on. Genres, themes, what length of project you're best at. You'll know when to make the call to start saying "no" to projects that don't sing to you, and try to stick to that calling. You should be honing your skills in that area. You'll also get hired for those types of jobs if you're actually doing those types of jobs. I personally think you'll do your best work on things that you can get emotionally invested in. We are creating stories, characters, and emotions after all, so if you don't feel it, how do you expect to get your audience to?

What's your favorite thing about your workspace and why?

SCRIVER: I love all the inspiring little bits of stuff around my workstation. It's a fun, messy, analog version of my Instagram zone.

COWPER: I keep a relatively small desk in my work-from-home office to try to avoid clutter and have more room for other things in the space. I have my piano and a spin bike in here that I use to take breaks or reset my nervous system if I'm moving from a stressful scene to a slower scene so that I'm not cutting in the wrong headspace. Lots of plants. My favourite thing is my lack of a computer chair. It allows me to move around freely and pace or shake it out if I need to.

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