Visit by Minister for Foreign Affairs Dr Vivian Balakrishnan to Langkawi, Malaysia for the ASEAN Foreign Ministers' Retreat, 18 to 19 January 2025

Minister for Foreign Affairs Dr Vivian Balakrishnan attended the ASEAN Foreign Ministers' Retreat from 18 to 19 January 2025 in Langkawi, Malaysia. The Foreign Ministers discussed ASEAN's priorities, including Malaysia's chairmanship priorities and deliverables, and how ASEAN will respond to various regional and international challenges, including Myanmar.

The Foreign Ministers reaffirmed the importance of advancing ASEAN's Community-building efforts. Minister Balakrishnan emphasised Singapore's commitment to working closely with ASEAN Chair Malaysia, fellow ASEAN Member States, and our external partners to realise Malaysia's chairmanship priorities. This includes creating opportunities for our people and businesses in the digital economy through the conclusion of the Digital Economy Framework Agreement this year, as well as promoting sustainability and the energy transition through the ASEAN Power Grid.

Minister Balakrishnan reiterated Singapore's continued support for ASEAN's vision of an open and inclusive regional architecture and pledged support for Malaysia's efforts to deepen ASEAN's engagements with all of our external partners. Singapore will also work with Malaysia on implementing the Five-Point Consensus and the Leaders' decisions with regard to the situation in Myanmar.

Minister Balakrishnan also had meetings with Vietnam Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Bui Thanh Son, and Malaysian Minister of Foreign Affairs Dato' Seri Utama Mohamad Hasan during his visit.

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MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

SINGAPORE

19 JANUARY 2025

TRANSCRIPT OF MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS DR VIVIAN BALAKRISHNAN'S DOORSTOP INTERVIEW FOLLOWING HIS ATTENDANCE AT THE ASEAN FOREIGN MINISTERS' RETREAT IN LANGKAWI, MALAYSIA, 18 TO 19 JANUARY 2025

Minister Dr Vivian Balakrishan:We had a very good ASEAN Foreign Ministers Retreat. The general sense is that the world is at an inflection point. Much of the confluence of factors which have contributed to the peace and prosperity of Southeast Asia are now unravelling. Even if they are not actually unravelling, fundamental changes are occurring.

The first question is, what are these factors that have contributed to our peace and prosperity?

Number one, in Southeast Asia, for the past couple of decades we have had a stable balance of power. We have had peace. We were able to focus on economic development rather than on strategic or military issues. Number two, we have had a system of global economic integration, characterised by free trade, the growth of multinational corporations, their investments, and the development of global supply chains, which in turn have provided opportunities for many Southeast Asian nations to industrialise and to be part of this global network of supply chains. Further to that, we have also in the past few decades, witnessed a world in which tariff and non-tariff barriers have been coming down, and all this has been conducive to global trade.

Now, this confluence of factors is unravelling. First, we are now moving into a world in which there will be greater contestation, not just between superpowers, but between middle powers and hot spots. (There will also be) active conflicts in parts of the world. In the last few years, we have seen conflicts in Ukraine, Gaza, and tensions in the South China Sea.

Second, we are also seeing a world in which there has been a pushback against free trade and economic integration. (It is now) a more protectionist and nationalistic world. This, obviously, is anathema to the development model which Southeast Asia has embarked on.

Third, the United Nations, not just as a political convening point for all countries in the world, but also its ability to focus on the issues affecting the global commons. For instance, the Paris Agreement, The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) the Marine Biological Diversity of Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction (BBNJ Agreement), which was presided by Ambassador Rena Lee. This ability to provide global public goods, and to generate consensus is weakening. The conflicts in the last couple of years, in fact, are symptoms of this greater underlying dysfunction.

The next question that arises is - what does ASEAN do about all this? I would say there are some preliminary conclusions. First is that ASEAN needs to double down on ASEAN integration, because ASEAN cannot control the agendas of the superpowers, or indeed the larger powers. But we can, and we should focus on integrating ourselves, strengthening our economies, and our connectivity.

Specifically in this conference, what we discussed first is how we look forward to upgrading the ASEAN Trade in Goods Agreement (ATIGA).

Secondly, to upgrade existing free trade agreements with China, the Republic of Korean (ROK) and India. But beyond free trade agreements, to also explore new multilateral agreements. For instance, we are also negotiating the ASEAN Digital Economy Framework Agreement, which will enable us to harvest the new and emerging opportunities that the digital technologies provide. Beyond agreements, we are also looking at concrete things on the ground. For instance, the ASEAN Power Grid, which would interconnect the energy systems across ASEAN. This will enable a more stable and a more cost-effective way of making that transition into both energy efficiency as well as green and sustainable energy, but it requires a multilateral, forward looking and long-term vision to achieve. All these are examples of what ASEAN can do to increase trade, investments and connectivity within ASEAN itself. So that is the first theme - ASEAN integration.

The second theme that we discussed was the convening ability of ASEAN. For instance, the East Asia Summit, which occurs every year at the ASEAN Summit. ASEAN is at the centre of it. We engage not only the larger powers, but also middle powers. Virtually everyone who has a stake and is relevant to ASEAN is represented, and we look forward to this meeting that will be chaired by Malaysia as Chairman of ASEAN, to be able to generate some form of consensus and alignment amongst ASEAN and all our major economic partners. That is the second aspect.

The third is a more intangible but no less important point, which is that as the old structures underpinning the global strategic geopolitical architecture get eroded, it is important for ASEAN to maintain its unity, its cohesion, its adherence to principles and to international law, and to engage with all the major powers in an omnidirectional, principled, deliberate and careful way. Careful so that we do not become entangled in super power contestation, but at the same time, we maximise our strategic latitude, our right to choose our own destinies, and to do so by making common cause by adherence to long-held principles which lead to fairer, equitable and constructive outcomes for all of us. That is what I mean by an omnidirectional engagement of the rest of the world.

The fourth aspect is, for ASEAN to do all this, we also need to look into our own backyard. Unfortunately, the problems in Myanmar are nowhere near resolution. Actually, there has been no progress, and we have reaffirmed the centrality of the ASEAN Five-Point Consensus. Myanmar remains an integral member of ASEAN, but it needs to sort itself out. It needs national reconciliation. To the extent that ASEAN can act as a convener for all the different stakeholders in Myanmar to come together, we will seek national reconciliation in a long standing, fair and forward looking way. Then Myanmar can come together and get on this bandwagon, and we can hopefully safely navigate this emerging world. All in all, this was a very good, very candid, open and constructive meeting the past two days in Langkawi.

Noah Kong (CNA TV):I would like to ask a bit more about what you mentioned, about nationalism and protectionism and the broader trend in the world. Can you elaborate on ASEAN's strategy to adapt to these global dynamics in the year ahead? And should we be concerned about protectionism, even within ASEAN?

Minister:First, you need to take a step back and understand that all over the world, free trade on its own and taken to extremes without adequate attention to social safety nets, without attention to your citizens, skills, education and capability to take on new jobs. If you do not have your social and your educational and your economic agendas in sync, you will then get problems and you will get a domestic pushback. And this, in fact, is what is happening in many parts of the world. So, it is important not to just be upset about the rise of nationalism or the pushback against global trade, but to try to understand that point.

And then domestically, as in the case of Singapore, we are focusing on Skills Future, on improving and always evolving our education system. We are focusing on jobs and making sure that whilst you cannot stop the progress of technology and you cannot stop economic transformation, this has to be accompanied, hand in hand, with making sure our people are ready and prepared for the new jobs and have sufficient assurances from the social security safety nets that they will get through this transformation. So that is the first thing. It is domestic.

Do I anticipate a rise in nationalism and anti-trade sentiment within ASEAN? I think I am a lot more hopeful. Within ASEAN, first of all, all of us know that we are part of a global supply chain, and if we were to erect barriers either against the world or against each other, this will be a lose-lose proposition. So, I am confident that the leadership across all ASEAN countries understands what is in the long-term interest, and that we will therefore focus on uplifting the capacity of our people, and this will give us the ability to continue integrating and making the overall ASEAN economy more efficient and to grow as quickly as possible.

I should add that, despite all the anxieties at the global economy level, the prospects for the ASEAN economy still remain good in terms of our growth potential. Not just over one year or two years, but over the next two three decades. If you add up the combined GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of ASEAN, we should be able to get to number four or number five within the next two decades or so, on a global stage.

If you look even in terms of trading patterns, if you ask China who is your largest trading partner, you will see that ASEAN has overtaken the US and the EU. So, my point is, in the case of ASEAN, we have had good growth in the past three decades. We anticipate good growth for the next couple of decades, so long as there is peace and so long as the world does not completely fracture, and so long as we maximise space for us to grow economically, to grow together, and to grow a collective as ASEAN.

Seoow Juin Yee (Lianhe Zaobao):Minister, what is Singapore's perspective on ASEAN's collective approach to the Myanmar issue, particularly in light of the fact that some of the member states independently engage with Myanmar's military government. And in your view, can Malaysia's chairmanship achieve tangible progress in this regard?

Minister:I will put it this way-we all have a stake in Myanmar's stability, peace, and reconciliation. Having said that, some members of ASEAN, for instance, their immediate neighbours, have greater vulnerabilities to instability, violence, drug trafficking, illegal activities, and even the outflow of refugees. So, the vulnerabilities may differ across ASEAN.

But the larger point is that all of us want to achieve national reconciliation within Myanmar through a Myanmar-owned and Myanmar-led process. None of us want to interfere in the internal affairs of our fellow ASEAN member. So, in that respect, the more channels of communication and the more potential arenas for all the different stakeholders in Myanmar to come together, the better. I do not look at all these efforts to maintain communications, to open new channels and to convene the different stakeholders together, separately. These are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the more the better.

Amir Yusof (CNA Digital):In the pursuit of joining BRICS, some ASEAN countries have forged closer ties with the likes of Russia, China and the Global South. Given the context of the global geopolitical tensions that you spoke about, should Singapore be concerned with these developments?

Minister:Again, let us try to understand why over the last few years you have seen the growth of BRICS. You have seen AUKUS and the Quad develop, and a variety of other regional and sub-regional architecture. Basically, this is a period of uncertainty, and countries are trying to expand their networks, build new opportunities economically, make more friends and hedge or keep their options open. So, that is why you are seeing this proliferation of new or expanding architectures.

From Singapore's point of view, we have good relations with all the members of these new architectures. The second point is that Singapore takes memberships, commitments, responsibilities and liabilities very seriously. So, my attitude to BRICS and other emerging architectures is to keep an open mind. I would first assess whether there is strategic coherence behind these groupings. What is their alignment? What do they stand for? What is on their agenda? Does this promote peace and prosperity? And to the extent that they do, and where the agendas overlap, Singapore will be quite happy to work with them, either in groups or even bilaterally. (Singapore will) keep an open mind and continue to keep monitoring strategic and economic coherence.

Beyond that, we are looking to make friends and common cause with as wide a spectrum as possible. Not just with people, but with as many states as possible. But this kind of engagement cannot be based on an enforced agreement or being forced to choose sides for or against any party. As I mentioned earlier, we believe in an omnidirectional engagement of all strategic stakeholders at a global level.

My bottom line is, we keep our options open. We are not against the emergence of these groupings and where possible, if we can work together with them, we will happily do so. As for membership, we will have to look far more carefully before we sign on to anything.

Tan Min-Wei (Mothership):Is Singapore's, and to a certain extent, the whole of ASEAN's, commitment to the ASEAN Power Grid a vote of confidence in the long-term stability of ASEAN states, and that situations like Myanmar represent an aberration?

Minister:I certainly hope situations like Myanmar will be an aberration, for the future of ASEAN. But let us set that one aside temporarily, and ask ourselves, what does the development of an ASEAN Power Grid portend?

First, if ASEAN economies were not growing, we would not need to do this. Second, we all have a collective commitment to make the system for the electrical grid more stable, cost-effective, and green. We know that in designing these systems, the more you can raft different systems together, carefully and in a structured way, the better.

Third, it also gives ASEAN another opportunity to prove that a collective approach to getting things done and long-term projects which require confidence in the future, and which require governments to have reliable, long-term, stable regulatory regimes as well as good diplomatic and economic ties, both bilaterally and multilaterally, (works). So that is why I view this as an important icon of ASEAN integration and of ASEAN's potential for the future.

I could give you another example. For instance, we all know in Singapore, we have digital payment systems such as FAST, PayNow. You may also be aware that, in fact, we have already linked our digital payment systems to Malaysia. They call it, DuitNow. With Thailand, there is PromptPay, and with India, through their UPI (Unified Payments Interface) system. The project which we are now working on is called Project Nexus, which, will facilitate the easier onboarding of other countries for them to interconnect their digital payment systems. So again here, I think it is no accident that for cross border digital payments, ASEAN is taking the lead. Our pioneering work in linking our payment systems to Thailand, Malaysia, India- Indonesia is also watching this space very closely- is another example of how ASEAN integration can often be a nucleus and a working prototype of the future. So, I remain optimistic. I believe that these projects are important. I am not going to trivialise and say that these are simple and easy to execute both over one or two years, but the strategic direction is clear, and to the extent that these ASEAN meetings and summits maintain alignment and a confluence of interest at the highest level within our ASEAN countries, I think this is a good sign.

Tan Tam Mei (Straits Times):In the context of incoming US President Mr Trump, who is talking about protectionist policies, and tariffs. Is ASEAN ready to deal with this shift by a key partner, and is there anything that is going to change about ASEAN priorities and strategies?

Minister:Well, like I said just now, I always resist oversimplifying other countries' responses. And as I said, you first have to ask yourself why America is apparently changing direction, and as I have alluded to earlier, it has got to do with their own domestic sense of opportunity, fairness and preparedness for the future.

America has to sort out its own domestic political policy arrangements in order for it to have the confidence to deal with the rest of the world the way it has very generously done for 80 years, since the end of the Second World War. We should not get into a labelling or pejorative exercise. President Trump will be inaugurated tomorrow. We look forward to his inauguration, and to the policies, and we will have to make the necessary adjustments even as he makes changes to his policies.

But the key point I am making is that ASEAN will continue to double down on our own integration, enhance our own trade and investment environment within ASEAN, enhance our own connectivity, and make ASEAN as competitive as possible, as a trading partner, as an investment destination, or even as an investment source. (These can be achieved) by having long-term policies which are consistent, which are reliable, which are trustworthy, and to keep open engagements in an inclusive way with all the major powers- America, China, Europe, India, Japan.

And you will notice increasingly, particularly in the case of Singapore, we are paying attention to Africa and to South America, as well as establishing free trade arrangements, with MERCOSUR with the Pacific Alliance. In these places, their governments have a very wide diversity of economic perspectives from hard right to hard left. But you notice, even in those cases, they are open to, and they are keen to build economic ties with us in Singapore and in ASEAN.

The point is the world is changing. The changes start at home. These domestic changes will have an impact on foreign policy, and it is important in the conduct of foreign policy not to rush to judgment, to stay calm, stay consistent, be constructive, be open and be inclusive. I am convinced that these will be the attributes of our approach, even as the world goes through this inflection point.

Tan Tam Mei (Straits Times):A quick question about the issue of cross border crimes like online scam. Has it been discussed?

Minister:In the past and even now, there is worry about the opium triangle. Drugs unfortunately, are still a clear and present threat. But beyond drugs, (there are) now scams and other crimes will take advantage of interconnected digital economies. And again, this illustrates, just as it is in the case of drug trafficking, the need for a collective approach. Of course, we are far stricter about these things in Singapore, but Singapore also has to work with all our partners. So, that is the other reason why you need to have stability across every single member of ASEAN. Otherwise, you will have pockets where criminal syndicates can park themselves and from wherever they are, they can do a lot of harm to our people. Again, (we need to) work together and work in an open and inclusive way.

Sabrina Ng (CNA TV):Given that it is the 60^th anniversary of ASEAN in two years, and it is the year that Singapore is chairing, what are Singapore's plans or area of focus for its championship?

Minister:That is two years from now. I am not in a position to say what our themes would be, but as you would have ascertained from my comments in the last few minutes, I think some things are going to keep us occupied for probably the next decade. As I have said, (these include) integration, trade, investments, digitalisation, interconnectivity and keeping ASEAN competitive, relevant, and having a place at the main table, and to engage in a way in which we are taken seriously and relevant to global community. These may sound aspirational, and honestly, it is not something you can take for granted. I am not setting an agenda for 2027 when we will chair ASEAN, but I am saying that these are issues we need to think through carefully and to work on closely and collaboratively with our partners in ASEAN.

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