ICYMI: At Hearing, Warren Renews Push on Private Equity’s Threat to Fire Fighters and Public Safety

ICYMI: At Hearing, Warren Renews Push on Private Equity's Threat to Fire Fighters and Public Safety

Three companies now control approximately 80 percent of fire truck manufacturing

"What have these gigantic corporations done with all that market power? Well, they have hiked prices, restricted supply, and created a dangerous backlog of firefighting equipment."

Video of Exchange (YouTube)

Washington, D.C. - At a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Subcommittee on Disaster Management, District of Columbia, and Census, U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) continued her work to sound the alarm about the impact of private equity consolidation on the fire truck manufacturing industry. Senator Warren previously teamed up with Senator Jim Banks (R-Ind.) to conduct bipartisan oversight and has continued to press on the issue.

As a result of private equity serial acquisitions of fire truck manufacturers over the last two decades, three companies now control 80% of the market. These conglomerates have used their market power to hike up fire truck prices and delay the delivery of trucks to fire departments, threatening fire fighter and public safety. Edward Kelly, General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF), testified that fire departments are forced to wait three years for an engine or a ladder truck. Outdated fire fighting equipment has had deadly consequences for fire fighters and the communities they serve.

In April, Senator Warren and Senator Banks opened a bipartisan investigation into the harms of private equity roll-ups of fire truck manufacturers and wrote to the IAFF, seeking information about the adverse impact of private equity consolidation on fire fighters and communities in Massachusetts, Indiana, and across the country. Mr. Kelly revealed that the IAFF has written to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Department of Justice, pushing for an investigation.

When Senator Warren asked if they would support an FTC inquiry, General President Kelly, Mr. Basel Musharbash, Principal Attorney at the Antimonopoly Council, and Mr. Dennis Rubin, Fire Chief of the Kansas City Fire Department, all voiced support, with Chief Rubin calling a study under Section 6(b) of the FTC Act "critical."

Representatives from the two largest conglomerates, REV Group and Pierce, confirmed current cooperation with the FTC but did not commit to supporting a 6(b) study.

Senator Warren concluded the hearing by calling for the FTC to study the harm caused by private equity and other giant corporations dominating fire truck manufacturing. Section 6(b) of the FTC Act empowers the FTC to require a company to file answers in writing with information about the entity's business practices. The FTC's 6(b) authority also enables the Commission to conduct wide-ranging studies that do not have a specific law enforcement purpose. A 6(b) study into the fire truck manufacturing industry could help expose anticompetitive business practices by giant corporations and help lawmakers and law enforcement agencies chart next steps to support smaller manufacturers, fire fighters, and public safety.

Transcript: Sounding the Alarm: America's Fire Apparatus Crisis
Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs: Subcommittee on Disaster Management, District of Columbia, and Census
September 10, 2025

Senator Elizabeth Warren: Thank you, Chairman Hawley, and I want to say a very special thank you to both of you, both for having this hearing and for permitting me to come today. I am not a member of this subcommittee, but I got a little special exception to be able to come in here and ask some questions, and I'm grateful for that. Look, every community relies on firefighters, and firefighters rely on equipment to keep themselves safe and to be able to put out fires. I want to focus today on the impact of concentration in the industry and what it means to have diminished competition when firefighters and their communities are out looking to buy firefighting equipment. Over the last 20 years, private equity has been buying up independent fire truck manufacturers to the point that, today, just three companies own approximately 80% of all fire truck manufacturers. And what have these gigantic corporations done with all that market power? Well, they have hiked prices, restricted supply, and created a dangerous backlog of firefighting equipment. I just pulled some examples at random: In 2013, a pumper truck cost $500,000, today it costs a million dollars. In 2013, a ladder truck cost $900,000, today it costs $2 million. In 2019, the lead time for a fire truck delivery was one year, today, it's up to three and a half years. So let me start with you if I can, General President Kelly, you represent more than 350,000 firefighters all across this country, which is why Senator Banks and I wrote you a letter about this very topic. Could you explain how private equity roll-ups of fire truck manufacturers threaten firefighters' ability to protect the communities that they serve?

Mr. Edward Kelly, General President, IAFF: Absolutely Senator, and thank you for the question. Chief Rubin testified earlier, in his city, they had to put, because they did not have enough apparatus on hand to staff the firehouses, they were putting firefighters out basically on pickup trucks like painting crews with ground ladders. Now, if you're trapped in the third or fourth floor, you're jumping. And that is not how emergency response is designed in this country. We have standards that have been created over many times, and unfortunately, when we read about a fire code or a standard, it's usually in the shadow of a devastating loss of life, and we don't make these up. There's a reason that these standards are in place and what's been created notwithstanding, you know, the streamlined ordering process, which that pierce line, although it's supposed to streamline the production, still takes two to three years to deliver an engine or a ladder truck. Not only do we need to do better-we need to investigate how we got here, and that's why, in the wake of your letter, we've actually written to the Department of Justice and the FTC to investigate this.

Senator Warren: I appreciate that very much. You know, I just want to underscore this again: we are talking about three companies that control 80% of all manufacturing. They know they can hike prices and nobody can afford to walk away. That's the consequence of these roll-ups that concentrate so there's less and less competition here, and this is why it is important that the federal government investigate and enforce the law to prevent this from happening. The Federal Trade Commission has the authority to investigate whether private equity firms and other giant companies have broken competition laws, going very much to your point, President Kelly, and whether they've made it more difficult for firefighters to do their jobs and keep us safe. So, Mr. Musharbash, you're an expert on competition. Let me just ask you. Would a study by the FTC help shed light on this issue and help firefighters get the equipment they need to keep their communities safe?

Mr. Basel Musharbash, Principal Attorney, Antimonopoly Council: Absolutely, Senator.

Senator Warren: Good. You want to elaborate on that? You can. I still got some more time, if you want to say a little bit more.

Mr. Musharbash: I would love to, Senator, thank you for the question. I would say that a 6(b) inquiry would help in two ways. On the one hand, it could shed light on the practices of the dominant firms, REV Group and Pierce, to make sure that the public and lawmakers know about those practices, and whether they're anti-competitive or abusive, or whether they present barriers to competition for small manufacturers. Beyond that, a 6(b) inquiry would very much help us understand the barriers, the other barriers, to competition for the small manufacturers. Why is it that they can't expand? Why is it that they can't, for example, many of them can't acquire steel and make their own chassis. That's why a 6(b) inquiry would be very helpful here, absolutely.

Senator Warren: That's very helpful. And President Kelly, do you agree that you'd like to see the FTC investigate and write a report on this?

Mr. Kelly: Absolutely, I think that we've actually wrote a letter and asked them to involve themselves in it. And to your point, when you see three companies controlling 80% of the market share, it harkens me back to the reminder of trying to buy concrete in Manhattan in the late 1980s.

Senator Warren: Very, very good. And, Chief Rubin?

Mr. Dennis Rubin, Fire Chief, Kansas Fire Department: Yes, ma'am. Without a doubt, I think to have the investigation move forward is critical. I would just dare say, going back to one of your earlier questions, during the International Association of Fire Chiefs Conference in 2024, we met with the President, just happened to be there, of Pierce, and he described the fact they expect escalating, escalating prices coupled with more delays. Verbalized that. After that, we had meeting after meeting. It was just interesting the way you described your question, because you were exactly right with their local distributorship, Conrad. Conrad said they weren't going to be able to do anything better than three years, and maybe longer, with price increases. And quite frankly, at that point, we made a determination to go with another company. We're actually using, as they say, full disclosure, Spartan, which is part of the REV Group, but we're going to get a little bit better delivery time, not great, but better, and the price was significantly lower than what we were going to pay with Pierce.

Senator Warren: You know, but you remind me, Chief Rubin, on this, not only the risks that President Kelly points out, but that the problem is headed in the wrong direction. That is, that it's getting potentially, here, that it is getting worse.

Mr. Rubin: Without a doubt. Again, going back to the time when we were without five fire trucks of 15 total, we contacted every fire department that we knew of that had used fire apparatus for sale. That was back in July of 2023, with no results. We looked at every manufacturer available, and there were four fire trucks that we found in Louisiana. We bought three of the four immediately, and they didn't really meet our needs. They were rural fire trucks in an urban setting, but at least it got us out of, what I would describe, as a major crisis. And exactly as the General President described, if someone would have been trapped on the second or third floor in Kansas City, Kansas, during that window, which was a three-month window, and we documented 108 different calls that we went on, the firefighters would arrive and they'd wait for the real fire truck to show up to go to work.

Senator Warren: I appreciate that. I don't want to be the guest that came and ate all the pork chops. But I just wondered if, Chairman Hawley, could I have a couple more minutes just to ask Mr. Virnig and Mr. Meyer about this? You represent the two largest fire conglomerates, REV Group and Pierce, and together, your two companies alone control more than 60% of the market, thanks to private equity's two-decade-long efforts to buy up the smaller manufacturers. So, you've heard from everyone else on the panel that an FTC study of what's going on in the fire equipment manufacturing industry would help firefighters do their jobs more effectively and more safely. So Mr. Virnig, yes or no, would you support an FTC study?

Mr. Mike Virnig, President of REV Specialty Group: Senator Warren, thank you for that question. The FTC has reached out to us, and we've had conversations with them. They've asked us to supply a lot of information based on the things that we're talking about here today, and we were more than happy to supply that for them.

Senator Warren: Well, okay, so you would support a study? Yes, is that what you're saying?

Mr. Virnig: I continue to work with the FTC in any way they see-

Senator Warren: Is that a yes? Would you support a study? It's not a hard question. This is as easy as my questions get. Would you support a study?

Mr. Virnig: So I don't know what a study is, because I build fire trucks for a living-

Senator Warren: Really?

Mr. Virnig: And I don't know what that term is. I know that we're working with them. I don't know to what level we are, so I apologize.

Senator Warren: I'll take that as the game of dodgeball. Mr. Meyer, how about you? Would you support an FTC study?

Mr. Dan Meyer, Vice President of Sales, Pierce Manufacturing: We've also been engaged with the FTC with inquiries that they've had, and we'll continue to work with them and cooperate with them on any requests that they have.

Senator Warren: Okay. Would you support a study?

Mr. Meyer: We're going to continue working with the FTC at anything that requests that they have and be-

Senator Warren: Look, I just want to say, if you are so confident that you're doing right by the fire departments across America, then why would you be afraid of the study? Why wouldn't you just stand up and say, "it's a study"? Just come in, find out what's happening, find out what's changed over time. As President Kelly says, how we got here, and try to answer the question that Chief Rubin is asking, and that is, "What's the path we're on going forward"? Why is it so hard for 60% of the industry, who is so sure you're doing a good job, just to stand up and say, "Sure, come and study us. We got nothing to hide." Or did I get that wrong, maybe you've got something to hide.

Mr. Meyer: Ma'am, we're more than a 100 year old company. We've been fair, honest and transparent with our customers through that. I don't believe we have anything to hide. I don't know the details of what the difference between an inquiry and a study are as it relates to the FTC and ma'am, I don't know what exactly that means, but at the same time, we will continue cooperating.

Senator Warren: I just want to point out the guys who put their lives on the line, they didn't have to stop and ask what the difference is between an inquiry and a study. They said, "We'd just really like to know what's going on." People who study competition say, "This is a real problem here. We'd really like to know what's going on." And the people who are on the front lines, who are hearing about where this problem is headed and who it is, next time around, going to be sent out in a pickup truck in the middle of a fire to try to save lives, and maybe put their own lives at risk. They didn't have to ask the difference between an inquiry and a study. They said, "Please bring in the FTC and let's get a study." I sure would like to get this done, if we could. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member, thank you, and thank you for your indulgence on time.

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